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Yo, Trix-ie. You know you two have spent altogether too much time joined at the netherlands when you can channel him that well. Martin, your turn for a stab at the fancymaking wordrizzle.
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I tried to stay away but couldn't resist...
In respons to Stephon's post..."Excuse me, but where was God, or whatever higher power, for the people that died on 9/11?... blah blah blah ...Not, “Where was that omnipotent S.O.B. when they were shooting at me?”"
Oh, where to start?...
How about with the fact that this is the most simplistic, moronic, and self-centered interperetation of the concept of "GOD" that one could possibly hold.
Let's go to the chart, shall we, Chirpy?
IF a "GOD" does really and truly exist, either as spirit, matter, or manifest mass concept, then he/she/it is the caretaker of the Universe, yes? NOT the nanny to the Human Race. So where was "GOD"? Right Freakin' There! And Everywhere! He/she/it probably grabbed a Coke and smiled! Death is bad if you look at it that way, but, obviously, a "GOD" looks at death as a clean-up process. And atrocity as just another drop in the bucket. If bad things didn't happen, then good things couldn't happen. So everytime you are exhilarated by the fact that your job consists of goofing off and then people handing you money, think about the fact that maybe, since YOU have it good, then someone else somewhere has it BAD.
Then stop thinking in such silly terms, put your underoos on, and go to work.
"Where was "GOD" when you stepped on that cockroach?!?!?!?"
It's like listening to a deaf mute gargling with mud when some humans speak.
If the fact that the entire cosmos does not care about your puny little life is a pet peeve of yours, be prepared to be pissed off for awhile.
I got news for ya, Death Happens... innocent, guilty, young, old, black, white, ingelligent, or idiotic... and it's a GOOD thing, as a matter of fact, to ram even more cliches down your throat that should have sunk in a long time ago, it's a Fact of Life, right up there with Trudy and the rest of 'em.
Maybe if people were to bring their ideologies out of the dark ages, and get just a little bit up to speed, we'd be able to put the 20,000 Leagues of ideological and intellectual sludge that the majority lives under, and attempts to speak through, aside long enough to agree on the basics.
"If there really is a God, I sincerely hope he is not so arbitrary and megalomaniacal, stepping in as the whim takes him, handing down judgements, then taking credit for the work of others."
Did you really type this? And then LOOK at the screen and press enter?
I'm at a loss for words.
Sorry, but people who think "GOD" should look out for them for no reason whatsoever are MY biggest pet peeve.
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: Doctor Eric ]</p>Comment
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OK This stuff is pushing my buttons - for the first time i will join a serious discussion so I can be flamed too [img]wink.gif[/img]
[quote]Originally posted by Doctor Eric:
<strong>
If the fact that the entire cosmos does not care about your puny little life is a pet peeve of yours, be prepared to be pissed off for awhile.
I got news for ya, Death Happens... innocent, guilty, young, old, black, white, ingelligent, or idiotic... and it's a GOOD thing, as a matter of fact, to ram even more cliches down your throat that should have sunk in a long time ago, it's a Fact of Life, right up there with Trudy and the rest of 'em.
Maybe if people were to bring their ideologies out of the dark ages, and get just a little bit up to speed, we'd be able to put the 20,000 Leagues of ideological and intellectual sludge that the majority lives under, and attempts to speak through, aside long enough to agree on the basics.
<snip>
Sorry, but people who think "GOD" should look out for them for no reason whatsoever are MY biggest pet peeve.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ok agreed ,
I don't delieve that there is a "major power" in this universe nor do I see why he/she/it should look out for anyone or anything, good people die, bad people die, hell it could be me next. Weather I die or not is nothing to do with some pre-determined bollocks, it just happens because time marches on and we make good and bad choices - eg shall i cross the road now? WHOOPS
Hell if everything is determined my a higher power then why bother to do anything - if it wants you to be able to juggle then it'll give you the ability, if it wants you to get off your arse and eat then he will.
Last time I checked I had to work damn hard to learn what I know.
But having said that that's just my own thoughts on if there is a god or not.
Religion has been the cause of more conflicts than anything else.
I guess this is my main point - I'm not against other peoples religion, race, sexuality, whatever so long as they don't force it on anyone BUT (and I know I'm preaching to the converted here) for fcuk's sake why can't people just leave it be and get on with having fun and living their lives without worring what other people, or even some "Higher being" thinks? I mean really?
<img src="graemlins/jester.gif" border="0" alt="[jester]" />
The Had Matter
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: The Had Matter ]</p>Comment
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Thanks for the shout out, Lynne.
Scott Adams, "Dilbert" author, wrote "The best we can
do is to update our delusions". This is in a recent book called "God's Debris: a Thought Experiment" which I recommend as a primer on seeing how our thinking imposes limits on our concept of God, and on how delusion is the water we swim in.
It doesn't sound like you are looking for anything other than the jucy joy of being right, but "Conversations With God" is another very good investigation into how we limit the concept with our thinking.
I have no good argument that there is a god. When I see sunlight reflecting on water, I sometimes feel like life is winking at me, loving me, and loving that I am watching it unfold. For me its in the moment, in hearing my bike tires crunching sand. There's no rules or punishments, no roadmap, no limits, and we are all it.Comment
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[quote]Originally posted by Mr.Taxi Trix:
<strong>Thanks for the shout out, Lynne.
Scott Adams, "Dilbert" author, wrote "The best we can
do is to update our delusions". This is in a recent book called "God's Debris: a Thought Experiment" which I recommend as a primer on seeing how our thinking imposes limits on our concept of God, and on how delusion is the water we swim in.
It doesn't sound like you are looking for anything other than the jucy joy of being right, but "Conversations With God" is another very good investigation into how we limit the concept with our thinking.
I have no good argument that there is a god. When I see sunlight reflecting on water, I sometimes feel like life is winking at me, loving me, and loving that I am watching it unfold. For me its in the moment, in hearing my bike tires crunching sand. There's no rules or punishments, no roadmap, no limits, and we are all it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My apologies if I came across as wanting to be right - the main point I guess I was trying to get across it that perhaps we should stop worring about who is right or wrong and get on with enjoying moments like you describe - or my own favurite which i experienced some miles into the north sea at 1am whilst I was the only awake member of the crew of a 38 foot racing yacht:
When the sea temperature is just right, and the night is clear sometimes the algae in the sea will phosperence really brughtly and the whole sea around lights up at every disturbance so it looks like the whole visible world is sparkleing brightly - one of the most beautiful things I will ever seeComment
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Someone challenges your religious beliefs, Eric, and you respond with a personal attack...not very enlightened.
I’m trying to wade through the invective in your post and get to the meat of your argument and I have to ask, did you even read my post? Or did you just skim it looking for things to be self-righteous about?
Let me address some of your comments, then go back and try to clarify my statements–
-“If bad things didn't happen, then good things couldn't happen”
Bullshit. I’m sure you’ve heard that there are/were tribal cultures that have no word for “war” because it doesn’t exist for them. By your statement (one of those cliches your refer to in your post), those tribes cannot possibly have peace. We can have good without having bad; we just wouldn’t call it “good” we’d call it “life”.
-“So everytime you are exhilarated by the fact that your job consists of goofing off and then people handing you money, think about the fact that maybe, since YOU have it good, then someone else somewhere has it BAD.”
You do not know me, Eric. Do not presume to judge my awareness of, concern for, or actions on behalf of, people who have it worse than I do.
-“If the fact that the entire cosmos does not care about your puny little life is a pet peeve of yours, be prepared to be pissed off for awhile.”
Again, did you even read my post? I said nothing like that. In fact, I said exactly the opposite.
-“Maybe if people were to bring their ideologies out of the dark ages, and get just a little bit up to speed, we'd be able to put the 20,000 Leagues of ideological and intellectual sludge that the majority lives under, and attempts to speak through, aside long enough to agree on the basics.”
I couldn’t agree with you more.
-“Did you really type this? And then LOOK at the screen and press enter?”
Yes, I did. Did YOU look at the sentence that followed it? I was joking.
Put down your stick for a second and actually read what I said. You’ll be surprised (and no doubt disturbed) to find that I was saying basically the same thing you are.
I didn’t say that I was upset that God “does not care about [my] puny little life” (BTW, I don’t feel like my life is puny; if you feel yours is, perhaps you should speak with someone).
My whole point was how ridiculous it is that people think God is somehow concerned with saving *them*, while letting others die. My issue was not with how God behaves, but the absurd, myopic, sophistic, and self-serving views that some people express as to how God “does things”.
It’s equivalent to saying, “The lifeguard at the pool is so wonderful! He stood by and watched as that bully threw me into the pool and held my head under water until I passed out. The only reason I didn’t drown is because the lifeguard pulled me out. He saved my life!”
It’s like an abused spouse talking about how sweet it was that her husband took her to the hospital, while ignoring the fact that he gave her the beating that sent her there.
Again in simple terms: God is all-powerful and all-loving enough to have saved you, but not that other guy? Boy, that kind of belief really annoys me.
In fact, I’d call it ideological and intellectual sludge.
Ok, Eric? I think we have basically that same views. You got to take your free shots, so please allow me (with tongue in cheek) to vent: dick. pretentious twat. pedantic little shit. Knøw Nøthing.
There. Now I feel on even footing. Can we start fresh?
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: Stephon ]</p>Comment
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Hmm, I was raised a christian, went to christian school and the whole deal. Stepping back and looking at that whole ordeal from my present point of development, the ideas of Bishop Romero and the other priests who, much to the dismay of the Vatican, preached that the will of God is the will of the poor. They believed that heaven and hell exist right here on earth, and that the task of a christian should be to raise the expectations and quality of life of the poor. This is the kind of spirituality I can get with, as opposed
to the masturbate-and-go-to-hell/wait-till-you-die-to-be-happy/render unto-Ceasar-what-is-Ceasar's/turn-the-other-cheek-while-god's-emmissaries-take-your-land school of christianity. Spirituality can open a nasty can of worms,ie the terms "good" and "evil" being used to describe nations or pretending that there is an intrinsic nature of good or evil embodied in anything in the material world.But I guess the Rockefellers and Morgans wouldn't be lavishly funding "Divinity Studies" courses in universities and colleges unless it somehow strengthened their ability to rule. Oh, did the mainstream US press cover the story that a bunch of Canadians got killed and wounded by one of Sam's bombs in the land of the Taliban?
Bush didn't even acknoledge it or apologize in a timely fashion.Needless to say, this event and the obvious contempt shown by US rulers has reduced the average Canadian's enthusiasm for the current war effort.
Fat hats and all that.Comment
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[quote]Originally posted by jonnyflash:
<strong> masturbate-and-go-to-hell/</strong><hr></blockquote>
WHAT!!!!
Where does it say that?
Oh crap, I am SO screwed...
damit..
When it said all that stuff about spilling seeds on the ground I thought they were talkin' about somethin' else.
Any way to get a get out of hell free card on that one?
Best,
Dan-
[img]wink.gif[/img]Comment
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[quote]Originally posted by Stephon:
<strong>Feel compelled to weigh in here for a minute, even if it’s a bit of a tangent. Triona, you pushed one of my most hair-trigger hot buttons (is that a mixed metaphor?)
Excuse me, but where was God, or whatever higher power, for the people that died on 9/11? What, was 3067 dead His cutoff for the day, so He saved the rest? Good thing the quota wasn’t “tens of thousands”.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My grandfather always used to say that there's a great book and in it your name is written for the day you are born and the day you will die. I've been through two near death experiences and have developed an appreciation for it (the last one being six years ago today when my son was born). It was a sad thing that God had to have so many names on the list that day, but I know of too many people who were mysteriously "late for work" (train late, overslept, etc.) that would otherwise not have been here. We can't change where our name is in the book, we just have to be grateful that the page of the day doesn't have our name on it and make it the best day that we can, just in case our name comes up tomorrow.
[quote]<strong>Why is it that survivors of a tragedy will give God credit for the survival, but not blame for the tragedy? There was an American pilot who was downed in enemy territory in '95, and because of his own training, cunning, and "problem-solving ingenuity", he survived for 6 days to be rescued. What does he say when he's interviewed? Says he made it out because of his "relationship and love for God." Not, “Where was that omnipotent S.O.B. when they were shooting at me?”
If there really is a God, I sincerely hope he is not so arbitrary and megalomaniacal, stepping in as the whim takes him, handing down judgements, then taking credit for the work of others.
(Wait a minute, I think He may have posted on this forum. . .)</strong><hr></blockquote>
A good number of people look to whatever deity they believe in for strength in trying times. They also look to those they love. I remembered hearing the doctors say "It's a boy!" and then I blacked out. I felt very lost and alone but I knew I had to find my way back to my little boy. I did and survived something that shocked the hell out of the doctors (they figured I was history).
God doesn't take credit for things, man gives it to him. There's an old saying "God helps him who helps himself". If believing in a higher power gives you the strength and courage to do what has to be done to get through something, what's wrong with that? I feel it's whatever works best for each person.
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: Triona ]
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: Triona ]</p>Comment
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I'm getting some sort of sick thrill out of this and it is making me feel dirty.
[quote]Originally posted by Stephon:
<strong>Someone challenges your religious beliefs, Eric, and you respond with a personal attack...not very enlightened.</strong>
I am neither enlightened, nor do I harbor any "Religous Beliefs" Therefore you could not have challenged them in any way. I attacked you because I wanted to.
<strong>I’m trying to wade through the invective in your post and get to the meat of your argument and I have to ask, did you even read my post? Or did you just skim it looking for things to be self-righteous about?</strong>
Yes, I read your post, I may have misinterpereted it, but I did read it.
<strong>Let me address some of your comments, then go back and try to clarify my statements–</strong>
No, Please, allow me.
<strong>-“If bad things didn't happen, then good things couldn't happen”
Bullshit. I’m sure you’ve heard that there are/were tribal cultures that have no word for “war” because it doesn’t exist for them. By your statement (one of those cliches your refer to in your post), those tribes cannot possibly have peace. We can have good without having bad; we just wouldn’t call it “good” we’d call it “life”.</strong>
Exactly, this is my main point. You'd call it life and have no idea whether it was any good at all, no passion, love, lust, or exhilaration. The way I grew up, we changed economic status drastically a whole lot, and this is how I learned this very valuable lesson, cuz when I had it good, I had no Idea.
<strong>-“So everytime you are exhilarated by the fact that your job consists of goofing off and then people handing you money, think about the fact that maybe, since YOU have it good, then someone else somewhere has it BAD.”
You do not know me, Eric. Do not presume to judge my awareness of, concern for, or actions on behalf of, people who have it worse than I do.</strong>
I don't pretend to know you, and I apologize if this statement offended you, it honestly wasn't meant to.
<strong>dn’t say that I was upset that God “does not care about [my] puny little life” (BTW, I don’t feel like my life is puny; if you feel yours is, perhaps you should speak with someone).</strong>
In relation to the cosmos, your life is less than puny. That's my story and I'm sticking by it.
y whole pint was how ridiculous it is that people think God is somehow concerned with saving *them*, while letting others die. My issue was not with how God behaves, but the absurd, myopic, sophistic, and self-serving views that some people express as to how God “does things”.
It’s equivalent to saying, “The lifeguard at the pool is so wonderful! He stood by and watched as that bully threw me into the pool and held my head under water until I passed out. The only reason I didn’t drown is because the lifeguard pulled me out. He saved my life!”
It’s like an abused spouse talking about how sweet it was that her husband took her to the hospital, while ignoring the fact that he gave her the beating that sent her there.
Again in simple terms: God is all-powerful and all-loving enough to have saved you, but not that other guy? Boy, that kind of belief really annoys me.
In fact, I’d call it ideological and intellectual sludge.
Ok, Eric? I think we have basically that same views. You got to take your free shots, so please allow me (with tongue in cheek) to vent: dick. pretentious twat. pedantic little shit. Knøw Nøthing.
There. Now I feel on even footing. Can we start fresh?
[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
We don't have the same views actually, but other wise, No prob. But if you keep talkin' dirty to me you might have some trouble on your hands....
(I love it when they get fiesty and call me a "Knøw Nøthing"!)
[img]biggrin.gif[/img]Comment
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THERE IS NO GOD!
THERE IS NO GOD
THERE IS NO GOD
THERE IS NO GOD
THERE IS NO GOD
ITS JUST ONE BIG BANG
AND A BANG AT ANY TIME IS GOOD....
ESPECIALLY WHEN ITS BIG.Comment
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I'd rather not offend anyone as that goes against my nature but God has a really big nose and dresses funny.Comment
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Danny, if you land on one of the railroads and trade me for my hotel on Baltic, I'll throw in a Get-Out-Of-Hell free Card.Comment
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Johnny, aren't you supposed to wait to make trades like that until both traders have at least one monopoly? Danny, before you trade, will one card suffice, or are we talking about serving consecutive eternities here? Debbie, can you type a little louder?
And you, Martin. I'll see you in hell. (I'lll be in an off- white chiffon number, with a rose in my teeth.)
[ 04-28-2002: Message edited by: Mr.Taxi Trix ]</p>Comment
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[quote]Originally posted by Mr.Taxi Trix:
<strong>Danny, before you trade, will one card suffice, or are we talking about serving consecutive eternities here?
[ 04-28-2002: Message edited by: Mr.Taxi Trix ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
[Danny with both shoes off an fly down]
Geez Taxi I don't know, I'm still counting. So far I'm stuck at 21. Has anybody got an Abacus? Acubus? Abacrombie? However the hell you say it.
Man I'm SO screwed...Comment
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