New York

[Daniel Forlano]

Beginning 1 PM on Tuesday I dug out my New Yorker issues from the last three years looking for that very article "The Real bin Laden" only to discover they republished it on the net. Anyway, since Tuesday I have been reading, listening and researching the complex issue of race, religion and state in the Middle East. The most simple and articulate writer I urge you to check out is Eqbal Ahmad whom I met as a student at Hampshire College. He died in 1999, the semester after I graduated, and it is at a time like this that I wish he were here.
If you have not heard of him it is easiest to familiarize yourself through his better known connections Noam Chomsky, Edward Said, Howard Zinn, and Alexander Cockburn among others. But it is important to realize Eqbal as having his own strengths and influences. Personally, I believe his lesser celebrity gave him a kinder, gentler influence than the academic circle with which he is grouped. Teacher, writer, activist and humanitarian, he has, for me, the most eloquent and unopinionated understanding of how states, races, and religions attempt to co-exist. He has a website devoted to him as well as a book "Confronting Empire."

Here are some links –

About Ahmad: http://www.hampshire.edu/academics/ss/eqbal/

Ahmad's writings: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark...bal_ahmad.html

Also, I think it important to read/watch main stream AND alternative sources of media. Understanding the systemic conditions which relate us to the conflict is a valuable exploration. Here are some other links:

http://www.thenation.com/

http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm

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stitches

[This message has been edited by Daniel Forlano (edited 09-17-2001).]

[AJJames]

Thanks for the informative links from Daniel and Em, moving poetry from Robert and everyone who has expressed sentiments and or opinions.
As much as I feel compassion and sadness over the tragic loss of life in NY, my thoughts now rest with the hundreds of thousands of Afgan refugees now homelss and fleeing their homeland . Jonnyflash said some intelligent things , it is clear as water to me that US foreign policy has brought about this tragedy, however, giving the people the power to make policy is tricky, pokie poke is right that if the common American had the power to push the button that starts nuclear war, they would do so , but that is not surprising when their elected leader irresponsibly incites racism and ignorance with his war mongering play ground bully speeches.
The only glimmer of hope in the us administration is Colin Powell who consistently translates Bushes bravado into rational strategy , thank god he is secretary of state.
To be honest I am not surprised by this attack and I am not surprised by the reaction in the states, what really surprises me is the international reaction especially here in Britain. We hear about suicide bombings in Jerusulem every week, floods in Bangladesh, Earthquakes all over the place, and the next day it's old news.
Earlier this year 30,000 people died in Earthquakes in India, yet we observed no minute silences ,played not the Indian national anthem, recogniesd it not as a time of mourning, or a time to donate to the red cross or give blood.To me this is really tragic.
As for what we can do , well we can all start by reading the "Qu'ran", so people know what they are dealing with, for instance most westerners assume that "jihad" must mean holy war , this is a dangerous misconception , "jihad" means devotional service , a teacher or a doctor can said to be partaking in "jihad".
Real muslims respect all life , the issues of conflict are purely economic not ideological, untill the economic balance is redressed in the world there will always be expressions of discontent.Military strikes will not redress this balance but will create further inequality and therefore will fertilise future attrocties.

[martin ewen]

Thanks AJ for the first glimmer of rational perspective.
Just for numbers sake and to include conflict as well as national disaster.
Rwanda's total of people hacked to death while UN troops stood by powerless because the US (and its lickspittle buddy Britian) Vetoed permission for action to be taken, argueing that isolated incidences of genocide did not constitute genocide proper was 800,000.(thats real people, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters,in some cases fetuses)
Those rich enough, remember that this is africa and not all the victims owned large sports utilities, paid the princely sum of us$32 to be shot in the head as the upmarket alternative.
Once more, that number again
800,000.
While americas tragedy is real I just think that maybe they as a people might, with all their information retrevial tech littering their gadget filled existances, seek to gently extract their heads from their arses and educate themselves as to the price the world as a whole has to pay for their pampered idealogical chicken gruel of the soul.
And cheap oil

Hope I havn't upset anyone.

[peterpanic]

hi everybody! i was offline for a while. did i miss anything?

in 1975 or 6, just before or after the twin wtc towers in nyc were completed, a street performer named phillipe petit walked on a wire between the two buildings. he dressed like a construction worker and hauled gear up freight elevators. he shot a line across with a crossbow. he went back and forth 7 times, carrying a heavy pole. he finally got off after the cops started tapping the wire with nightsticks. he was arrested and examined by a head shrinker, who determined that no sane person would do such a thing- but he seemed to be a danger only to himself. or possibly, on a windy day, someone directly beneath him. he was sentanced to give a free public performance in central park. last i heard he was artist in residence at st. john the divine/unfinished up by colombia. i have always considered this to be one of the single greatest accomplishments by a human being. (even tho he would have needed help) up there with everest or the moon or floating around in a ballon.

when i go to a new city i always compare it to new york. it seems strange to me that those towers no longer dominate the skyline. something unnerving about it. almost biblical. tower of babel and all that. they are saying 80 nationalities worked there.
what goes up MUST come down. not like that tho. i dont know who they will catch or what the punishment will be but i expect a free show in the park is out of the question.
peter pacifist

[Triona]

I have a major problem with your comparison, Ewen. The people who died in those countries were killed by their own people! In some cases, these so called "countries" are arbitrary pieces of real estate that were thrown together by European governments back in the age of colonization, whose native residents were tribes that had been warring with each other since time began.

The attack on the US was done by an outside force. We didn't go to the UN when Tim McVeigh blew up the federal building in Okalhoma City. We deal with our internal issue. Unfortunately, we now have to go to the UN because we are dealing with a country better than half way around the world who's controlling government seems to think there was nothing wrong with what the terriosts did.

I think we have given the Taliban more than enough opportunity to turn that scumbag over. If they want to get tough about it, I only pity the poor people that will be caught in the middle. Then again, they know what's about to happen as well so if they wanted to avoid it, they could have taken matters into hand themselves.

On a another note, that was a beautiful poem Butterfly Man. Can I pass it on to a friend who is with the NYPD? I'm sure they would appreciate your tribute.

Proud to be an American!

[Peter Voice]

Innocent lives are innocent lives, Triona, regardless of historic circumstance or location. Martin's point is about global inequality and economic oppression and I think it's valid. It's also niaive to think that the oppressed people in Afghanstan are in a position to "take matters into hand", as you so blithely put it.

[AJJames]

Trinona,your comments disturb me , are you aware that the oklahoma bombing was originally blamed on so called islamic fundamentalists, are you aware that the U.S along with Britain funded the Taliban and put them in power during the Soviet-Afghan conflict, gave them arms and trained them,
I'm curious are you aware that the Bush administration was funded largely by Esso and other such companies keen for Bush to pass leglislation to expand fossil fuel production, strip mine Alaska and abandon the Kioto agreement?
is your patriotism unquestioning Triona?
Will you feel any safer once Afganistan has been devastaed ,and hundreds of thousands of the poorest and oppressed peoples on Earth have been driven away from their homes? Will you feel satisfactorily avenged knowing that millions of the world's poorest people may die to avenge the lives of 7000 of the world's richest?
you are proud to be an American,
I'm ashamed to be part of the so-called civilised world. Freedom is a great thing to fight for, freedom to live in a natural way has been denied the peole of the world,
but people like you can't see that, you say hooray for U.S.A because they are gonna protect our freedom! our feedom to do what? to build the oil refineries, nuclear submarines, and a Mcdonalds on every street-corner.

[worldwidese]

C'mon performers! Get out of the loop! If you take a long, hard look at what you see on TV and other media, you will begin to realize that it's all about money. Money for whom? The big corporations, who really control the Government. Who got billions of dollars immediately? What did the little guys who lost family, jobs and small businesses get? See?

The airlines laid off thousands. Surely some of the billion dollars could have been used to keep employees on half pay. To them, ordinary guys are like Kleenex tissues. Disposible.

If there's a shooting war, just imagine how big business will be rubbing it's collective hands. All those weapons to sell. All those supplies to deliver. "Wow! we're really in the money, they'll gloat."

Don't let yourselves be herded like sheep. Sit back and think for yourselves. About globalization, which is great for big business, but bad for the individual. About speaking up for lower credit card percentages, now that the interest rate is way down. And start to think about everything on TV as not being gospel truth, but as being slanted. Ever watch CNN Headline News? They have a global MINUTE! Not long to let you know what's going on in the rest of the world.

Maybe read a newspaper from a foreign country. Maybe log on to the BBC world news. Or the Deutsche Welle English Service to find out what's really going on!

I don't remember the author of the quote but somebody once said "People get the government they deserve" Maybe that person was right!

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

Well, I've been into tower one over 20 times in the last six months. As a performer, I've done a 3 day one on one workshop with Philippe out of respect for his tower walk. I've heard free concerts at the courtyard in the shadow of the towers, and eaten at lemongrass, now windowless and silent. I've eaten at Windows on the World with my daughter, niece, and nephew. I'll miss the place.

Given that context, have this. Martin is dead on right. Ass extraction is well overdue. Our arrogance surrounds us like a fart in a closet.

Moreover, there is a gift, handed us by the dark trikster in this deft toppling, if we will but choose it. The ontological gem is this: Life is uncertain. We who spend so much time and energy propping up our surroundings to create the illusion of safety, to insulate ourselves from this fact,
fear what is so.
As sure as a frost will not suffer the sun, we are all going to die. Dwelling in this, dancing with it, allows for living now.

Love you all. See you on the street.

[AJJames]

well it's a lot more reassuring to read that not all Americans are brainwashed ignorant, blood thirsty arrogant, and racist.

[Prof Willie B]

Now, now, AJ. Slow down!
We've all known for a long time that many here have brains. I'd like to think of this as club that transcends nationalities and other generalisations.
Please don't be so rude.

[Danny Hustle]

This is one of the funniest things I've ever read here.

BEFORE he read this post he thought ALL Americans were brainwashed, ignorant, blood thirsty, arrogant, and racist.

But I guess he doesn't think it's ignorant to slander an entire country full of people with wild generalities.

You are quite a guy.

Hey AJ, on a scale of 1 to 10 you're a hypocrite

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by AJJames:
well it's a lot more reassuring to read that not all Americans are brainwashed ignorant, blood thirsty arrogant, and racist.

[Triona]

Hey AJ,

Did you know anyone who worked in the Trade Centers? I did. I now have a friend who, while he physically survived the catastrophy, he had a burning body fall in front of him (the person had jumped) as he fled for his life, is a mental vegetable. I have other friends who can't sleep and are almost zombified on medications just to keep them going as a result of this.

I am not racists. As I said it's a shame that more people are going to have to die, but if we don't stop it now it will only get worse.

I know we gave the Taliban the guns, I always had a problem with the US govt sticking their noses into other people's problems *Vietnam, Korea, etc.). It has come back to haunt us. The problem is ours now and it needs to be taken care of.

For all of the non-Americans out there who are cherrfully bashing us. Pay back your war debt and stop taking foreign aid from us, then I'll listen. We support most of the world in one way or another, and yet they seem to forget that when something like this occurs.

One good point was made, however, this is about money. Unfortunately, it's how the world runs, right or wrong (personally I think it's somewhere in the middle).

Yes people, my patriotism is unquestioning. My homeland has been attacked and I want the people who are responsible and those who are helping them punished. I want their entire infrastructure destroyed. They tried to do it to us, let's see how they like it themselves.

Just remember, as you go to sleep tonight, that if these acts of war go unanswered, they will only continue and grow worse. On 9/11 it was NYC. Tomorrow it could London, Tokyo, Sydney, who knows. Pleasant nightmares all, God knows we're having them...

[Triona]

Trinona,your comments disturb me , are you aware that the oklahoma bombing was originally blamed on so called islamic fundamentalists


Yep, cause they were the first to claim responsibility.


Will you feel any safer once Afganistan has been devastaed ,and hundreds of thousands of the poorest and oppressed peoples on Earth have been driven away from their homes? Will you feel satisfactorily avenged knowing that millions of the world's poorest people may die to avenge the lives of 7000 of the world's richest?


The firefighters aren't all that rich, neither are the secretaries, the janitors, the retail help (in the basement), or the thousands of other support staff for the rich folk who worked there.


you are proud to be an American,


Damn right I am!


I'm ashamed to be part of the so-called civilised world.


Then go live in a third world country. You just want the comfort and convenience of our wealth, while being able to bash us for it whenever the mood suits you.


[This message has been edited by Triona (edited 10-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Triona (edited 10-01-2001).]

[martin ewen]

I really don't see how to constructively add to an unyealding world view. Still.
foreign aid and selling weaponry are the same thing as far as Us policy goes.
If you don't like it go to a third world country and make Nike's in a sweat shop so people like you can be proud to be an american. 'Damn right'
Sorry damn wrong,
If there were no third world countries then us folks in the first world would have nothing left to rape.
Enjoy your burger, you're entitled to it, the TV tells you so.
I'm sorry, its all a bit messy with people falling out of buildings and real pain and tragidy, but pre-digested pap passing as informed opinion makes you a tool and really the potential you have for thinking for yourself is whats on offer here.
Someone bullied america, america can bully back or evolve.
The playgrounds getting too small for any bullys to survive and Thats my last political contribution.
take care, levity is a strong force.