New York

[Danny Hustle]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by martin ewen:
Dan
your obviously misguidedly under the assumption that argument consists of a kind of insult and sarcasm contest which is sad really as your transparently ill equipped.


But calling me ill equipped isn't insulting? I'm sorry, so what you are saying is it is all right for you and yours to insult me and mine as long as I don't respond in kind.

That's precious.

'I don't know what country you're from'.....


That was a serious question. I don't know what country he's from.



'The comics you like'...
All top shelf stuff (thats sarcasm)
now perhaps in reply to this you can run to a dictionary and collect some really good abusive and sarcastic words that add to your already sparkeling collection which so far, on this post alone, consist
of
"fuck you"
"shut the fuck up"
"fucked in the head"
"fucking nitwit
'Shut the fuck up" (again)
"pompous assholes"
"so fucking what"
"fucking hypocrite"



I think these sum it up quite well. Am I the only one who has employed the "F" word in this thread? Hmm...


Two other things, could you stop cutting and pasteing the letter you object to in full before you rant as it gets a bit tedious to re-read everything.



Then don't read it Martin. That's simple enough.


(although It'd be really reactionary if you carried on, that would sure score one on me)



yes, you are just racking up the points, congratulations. I know that for you nothing feels finer than pointing out the shortcomings of others.



and secondarily could you stop trying to represent the american point of view and just speak for yourself because you see I,m otherwise having a lovely time here in connecticut and your embarrasing some american friends of mine.
thanks ever so and remember your country needs you and don't ever change.

I've never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself. As far as your friends in Connecticut are concerned, the stupid usually seek each other out. I hope you are all having a jolly time at the expense of the dead. What a fun group.

have a nice day

Regards,

Dan-

[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-15-2001).]

[Danny Hustle]

I find it very funny AJ, that you and your pal have just accomplished nothing but insulting me without mentioning any of the valid points I had in my response to your last rant. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle..

Then you have the nerve to say that I have the attention span of a gold fish.

Why don't you talk about the USA's declaration of war? What about Bin Laden's admissions of committing treachery against the USA? Did you miss all of that? Or are you just having a small problem facing the facts?

I think it's a lot easier for you to call me a potty mouth than it is to listen to the facts.

Regards,

Dan-

[martin ewen]

Danny
I'm calling you ill equipped not strictly as an insult but more as a statement of fact in much the same way as calling a blind person blind is not an insult.
an example
You don't know where AJ's from??
Perhaps it might take more than 20 years you've been working on computers to pick up all the little details but eventually you will notice that on top of every post here on P.net theres a question mark.
Now if you move the cursor up to that question mark and click then, ..hey.. it tells you about the person posting.
In AJ's case it mentions that he's from some foriegn sounding place and if you look real close and clech your forhead you can see .co.uk on his e-mail.
If you ask someone brighter than yourself what that means they'll tell you it stands for Britian. UK= Britian
I'm sorry if I sound condecending to you but you have to learn these things or else you could go round giving morons a bad name.
Maybe you knew he was born of a woman and knew he lived in England but didn't know where other than that he came from.
As for the 'fucking nitwits' and the 'shut the fuck ups' they don't sum anything up but you.
They are hollow generic expressions containing nothing but anger and intolerance.
And in my opinion it is YOU who are using the tragic death of innocents who were collectively part of a pluralistic society to vent your narrow minded intolerent spleen.
You certainly don't defend them and in even attempting to betray your immaturity.
You neither represent them or the 100% of the people you state agree with your opinions.
You are simply an inarticulate shallow little nonentity bellowing selfishly over the graves of people who would be embarrassed to have you hijack their deaths for your own pathetic ends.

[Triona]

Okay guys (Martin, Ewen, etc.). can you please back off of Danny. This guy just lost friends in a senseless act of violence that I doubt any of you would disagree should never have happened.

I agree with him on some of his points, this act of war had to be answered. However, I also realize that there will be more innocents hurt in the process. I said it before and I'll say it again, it's a no win situation.

Trying putting yourself in Danny' shoes next time you lash out.

P.S. Be careful of white powder in your mail. They've found it in the UK, Austrailia and several other countries around the world. Poor innocent terrorists...

[Todd]

While I feel for Danny and sympathize,
Dannys loss is not a "Get out of Jail Free" card for him to spout-off and reduce his counter arguments in this little debate to unsupported attacks ,Ex. "Elvis has visited your spacecraft" (I'm paraphrasing).
Danny isn't the only one who has lost people, just some of us are not parading it around as an excuse to vent our anger with the kind of moral self assurance that is exemplified by members of the Taliban. Ex. "I'm right your wrong, so there" adding on to these arguments "I'm hurting and pissed off so deal"
Danny needs to deal with his grief outside of here and this debate.
I don't agree with everything being stated by everyone here in this little debate, but clearly its Dannys grief that is motivating him and making him emotionally unavailable to conduct himself in a rational manner in this debate.
BTW guys lets get this back on track as a debate, you know argument, counter argument etc. and less emotional.

[jonnyflash]

Danny said:I have never said that I know for sure that any particular person or group was responsible. How could I?
What I have said, is that OBL has publicly taken credit for several other bombings and acts of terror -- for which he has already been indicted. Even before Sept 11th he was on the run from authorities for mass murder.

JF replies:When civilians are going to be torn apart by cluster bombs,maybe just doesn't cut it.The US govt has committed mass murder on many ethnicities.Does this give any terrorist the right to target US citizens?I like to think not.


"So why all the energy standing up for this madman, I wonder? Would you want your kids to play with him?"

JF replies:
My goal is to bring light to the roots of this conflict.Cia created a beast it cannot control.That is the problem.They are training and equipping and employing more beasts as we speak.THIS is the source of this problem.

Danny said:
As for a court of law, many a case is built upon circumstantial evidence; there is not always a body or a smoking gun. Sometimes it's just too many coincidences for the guys own good which brings him down. That, and possibly a taped satellite telephone conversation!

JF replies:
The bombing of the MOVE activist center in Philly in 1985,The murders in the Waco,Texas "compound",and a myriad of other cases prove beyond doubt that the US government is quite capable of killing it's own people for no reason.This govt has 2000000 of it's own in jails,so many times more per capita than any of the more civilized countries.
Why should we believe they'd be any more honest or righteous now than they have been in the past?

Danny said:
"Furthermore, the Taliban themselves are not the rightful govt of Afghanistan. They are usurpers, and have done more to the detriment of their own people than any bombing could ever do. Seven million refugees, fleeing the hand of the Taliban for years, is nothing to sniff at."
JF replies
I agree.But really,which US-installed regime has ever done anything for their people?

[Chance]

Jonnyflash, putting aside for the moment your inflammatory rhetoric and transparent xenophobia, how seriously is anyone going to take your arguments when you are incapable of investing what little time is required researching Who wrote What on these (comparatively) insignificant pages?

[Danny Hustle]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Todd:
While I feel for Danny and sympathize,
Dannys loss is not a "Get out of Jail Free" card for him to spout-off and reduce his counter arguments in this little debate to unsupported attacks ,Ex. "Elvis has visited your spacecraft" (I'm paraphrasing).

Todd,
You evidently didn't see AJ's remarks about how he hates all Americans or all of Martin's various insults.

I would also like you to notice that while I may have a potty mouth, my comments were never limited to insults. I always responded often point by point with what I believe are valid arguments as to why I disagree with their point of view.

I don't think I am required to talk nicely to people who admit they hate not only me but all of my country men.

Danny isn't the only one who has lost people, just some of us are not parading it around as an excuse to vent our anger with the kind of moral self assurance that is exemplified by members of the Taliban.


I'm not using it as an excuse for anything. I am also not angry. How do you get angry at a guy who is so bigoted that he admits his hatred of an entire country full of people simply because of their geography.

Also, have you not noticed that these two have commented only on my so called insulting remarks while ignoring the argument?


Ex. "I'm right your wrong, so there" adding on to these arguments "I'm hurting and pissed off so deal"


I never said or implied this. If you are going to quote me, quote me. Do not make up lies. I made my statement about the loss of my friends as an attempt at apology. I thought I may have misunderstood AJ and Martin's comments. Then after reading their continued America bashing I see I was not mistaken. They are simply bigoted. I don't like bigots. I responded in kind.



Danny needs to deal with his grief outside of here and this debate.
I don't agree with everything being stated by everyone here in this little debate, but clearly its Dannys grief that is motivating him and making him emotionally unavailable to conduct himself in a rational manner in this debate.


I want you to point out where my points are not rational? Are you going to sit there and tell me that America has not declared war on Terrorism? Are you going to tell me that Osama Bin Lauden has not admitted to having been involved in past attacks against Americans? Are you also going to tell me that Oliver Stone and Rosanne Barr are experts on American history?

I think you might need to reread my posts without viewing the insults. In my opinion, my insulting comments were only responding in kind to insults made against myself and my countrymen.


BTW guys lets get this back on track as a debate, you know argument, counter argument etc. and less emotional.

Again, reread my posts you might find more useful information there than you think. Also hit Amazon.com or your public library and check out some of the afore mentioned reading list and then tell me that those books do not resemble more fiction than fact. I've actually read a few of them.

Again in closing I would like to reiterate that I am not angry at anyone. I do think AJ and Martin should clean up their own country before they feel compelled to comment on a country they in my opinion know very little about.


Regards,

Dan-

Great sprits often encounter violent oposition from mediocre minds.

[Danny Hustle]

Danny
I'm calling you ill equipped not strictly as an insult but more as a statement of fact in much the same way as calling a blind person blind is not an insult.


And please enlighten me as to how you have become enough of an expert to judge who is and is not ill equipped? How is this "fact".

Because to me, and this is only my opinion, it makes you sound like a pompous ass.


an example
You don't know where AJ's from??
Perhaps it might take more than 20 years you've been working on computers to pick up all the little details but eventually you will notice that on top of every post here on P.net theres a question mark.
Now if you move the cursor up to that question mark and click then, ..hey.. it tells you about the person posting.
In AJ's case it mentions that he's from some foreign sounding place and if you look real close and clech your forhead you can see .co.uk on his e-mail.
If you ask someone brighter than yourself what that means they'll tell you it stands for Britian. UK= Britian
I'm sorry if I sound condecending to you but you have to learn these things or else you could go round giving morons a bad name.
Maybe you knew he was born of a woman and knew he lived in England but didn't know where other than that he came from.



My, my, and you don't find this little tirade insulting? For the record, I didn't bother to check that makes me lazy not stupid. It also means that I did not want to assume that where he is, is necessarlly where he is from. In the midst of conversation I thought it would be easier to ask, I thought AJ might also have provided more information as to the hows and whys of where he lives and or is from currently made him so bigoted.

I hope this clears it up for you, and thanks for the kind words.


As for the 'fucking nitwits' and the 'shut the fuck ups' they don't sum anything up but you.


No, they actually point out my opinion of you. You may think THAT says something about me (and you are so entitled)but the words themselves were merely commentary.

They are hollow generic expressions containing nothing but anger and intolerance.


Much like the statement, "I don't just hate all Americans because.."

I think this sums up the comments of you and AJ quite nicely although I believe this particular comment belongs to AJ.
You guys don't sound like you are ready to hold hands and sing Kumbiya.

And in my opinion it is YOU who are using the tragic death of innocents who were collectively part of a pluralistic society to vent your narrow minded intolerent spleen.
You certainly don't defend them and in even attempting to betray your immaturity.
You neither represent them or the 100% of the people you state agree with your opinions.
You are simply an inarticulate shallow little nonentity bellowing selfishly over the graves of people who would be embarrassed to have you hijack their deaths for your own pathetic ends.


Well at least you were kind enough to qualify this as your opinion. You are certainly entitled, but considering my opinion of you, your opinion of me won't be keeping me up nights.

I am not the one who came to this thread and decided to use it as an anti American hate fest.

The good news is, because you are not American, you don't get a vote.

Now, this is the last time I will respond to a post that is nothing but a personal attack on me. If you would like to start a huge ugly personal pissing contest with me please do it by email.

If you would like to continue to insult me I kindly request you also comment on my arguments, on my end I promise not to use the "ef" word in my descriptions of you and your buddy because they obviously offend your delicate sensibilities.

I also humbly apologize for that. I speak that way often in casual conversation as do many of my friends. The words were not meant so much to offend as they were to emphasis my point. I'm sure this deficiency of table manners is a product of my lack of proper education and poor breeding.

Regards,

Dan-

[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-16-2001).]

[Jim]

OK guys, what was once debate has turned into a flame. Let's remember what the debate is all about and stick to it...

This goes for everyone.

I'm tempted to close this thread and start a fresh one back on topic.

Anyone else care to comment???

Jim

[martin ewen]

Jeez I've got to give him one thing, that dannys a tenatious little fuck.
I won't get drawn into a pissing contest again, my bladders empty.
I'll preface all my further posts by 'in my opinion' and refrain from exploiting what I percieve to be weaknesses in others.

I can be outragiously glib and see how that could be offensive to some but also this topic is primarily about 4/5000 dead people and how their deaths can be honoured by some kind of progression in the way we think and act.
We could identify the bad guys, which has been done, they've already sent videos going, 'we're over here' and it will be just a matter of time before they are found and excecuted. Innocent people have and will die as a consequence.
How do we stop it happening again?
Do we have to feed the whole world so it doesn't get hungry and start looking at our full plates and muttering?
Is it just bad luck that some countrys have been at one war or another for 20 years with a life expectancy of just over 40 and only 30% able to even read.
Do people hate the western world because they are hungry and ignorant and easy to manipulate?
How much of the western world is well fed but still ignorant and easy to manipulate?
How do you define ignorant?
Since the roman times its been a rule of thumb that to control any mass of people, a country, a city, a stadium, 10% of that mass must be diciplined and armed.
Is whats happening now just the numbers rearranging themselves to get back to that comfortable ratio?
The romans were very inclusive of other cultures, they got too diverse and cumbersome and imploded from within.
I really have no idea.
but I retain the right to question the ideas of others.

I have to go make strangers laugh and earn a living now.




[This message has been edited by martin ewen (edited 10-16-2001).]

[Danny Hustle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by martin ewen:
Jeez I've got to give him one thing, that dannys a tenatious little fuck.


And I'm cute too.

I won't get drawn into a pissing contest again, my bladders empty.


Mine is void as well. Not to mention that awful burning sensation.

Everything else aside, you raise some great questions in this post.

The downside is what the hell are the answers?

I don't have any answers either, but I do agree that blaming one country over another doesn't solve much. It may put a band-aid on things. But, eventually someone is going to come along and give the pot a good stir. It is how most humans are wired. that's my opinion anyway.

It seems to me the human race as a tribe is a warring bunch from the get go. I think most of us are absorbed in our own piece of the world (and that which we would like to covet)and not the bigger picture. I don't know if that is good or bad, right or wrong.

I do think it will take something a lot bigger than any one country or group of people to make it change for the better. Because those who are trying to change do not know the outcome of their actions either, they only know they don't like the way things are now. We all seem to have an opinion on what we think is best. When the truth is, no one really knows. Although, I will admit doing something is better than doing nothing.

We all like to picture Utopia, I don't think it can exist, well, not here on earth anyway.

That's my 2 cents.

Regards,

Dan-





[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-16-2001).]

[Triona]

Danny, I can tell you haven't been on this board long...

Martin is proud of being a pompous ass.

[jonnyflash]

I guess i've said my peice,there's not too much i can add to my previous arguments.Good debate,everyone and I'm sure we'll share a stage or pitch at some point in the future.

Jonny