blah, blah, blah: yes or no, stay or go

[Steven Ragatz]

Lynneski wrote:

And stop worrying about what "people" will think. Any producer or agent worth their salt has more sources of opinion and information than p.net. (For the record, I would venture to say that after first-hand experience with an artist, the opinions of fellow producers/agents rank most important.)

Perhaps, but I can say from personal experience that I have advised others against using certain performers based on their P.net online behavior. I figure if you can't behave in a virtual world, why should you be expected to handle yourself well in the real one?

Often, we get gigs because our names are passed around. When contacted about a gig that I am unable to take, I have a list of fellow performers that I can point the prospective client towards, or away.

Steven Ragatz

[firegirl]

THESE ARE A FEW OF MY FAVORITE THINGS...

Originally posted by Steven Ragatz
Often, we get gigs because our names are passed around. When contacted about a gig that I am unable to take, I have a list of fellow performers that I can point the prospective client towards, or away.

i think we all have those lists.

my opinion is (if anyone cares) that you're recomendation of someone (either positive or negative) shouldn't be formed based on an online forum -- it should be formed based on that person's ability to perform a show (ie: is it good?) or your personal interaction with that person...

there are several individuals on p.net (i won't mention names) who i think have acted like royal assholes on the p.net boards... but, then when i met them in person - they were awesome people. or, their show was amazing. or, both.

in fact - three of those people currently hold the status title of "some of my favorite people in the world."

and, those were people who i thought were the HEIGHT of assholish when i first encountered them on this forum.

conversely - there are individuals on the p.net forums who i think give great written advice or are very amiable people to chat with on the boards; but, when i've met them in person they've been petty/mean/underhanded or their show has sucked the wind out of the theatre it was staged in.

you just cannot base if a person is good for a show on p.net drivel... i don't think it's fair.

but, again - that's my opinion.

on another note - i think lynn is dead on right with her advice.
go lynneski!

[Steven Ragatz]

Yeah, but most of us have not actually met each other in person - or if we have - it has been very minimal contact (such as at MotionFest). Without any additional knowledge one can only base an opinion based on the information at hand, and if the only contact has been online, then the online persona will dictate that opinion.

Additionally, consider a realization that live performances come and go, yet once you have committed your thoughts to text on the Internet, it is there for good, and can be retrieved by anyone with the abilities to do a successful online search.

Right or wrong, who is to say, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is care free about their public image in a public place (such as this board) would be able to present themselves with a good public image at a performance event as well. I try to keep in mind that, from the producer's point of view, there is more to the event than just the artist's performance. There is also a strong consideration as to how the producer's image is portrayed by the artist as a their representative both on and off stage.

Steven Ragatz

[jester]

I doubt that you would say that about a performer you had real life experience of. I wouldn't endorse a performer unless I knew they were good. Business is business.

I do sometimes have to forward work onto performers who I know are good, even though I may not actually like them very much.

For example, there is another person on this Forum who annoys me intensely and I have passed on his details to a couple of people. I have done this because they needed a performer and I wanted to help.

Also, I have heard the equivalent of "Do you know who I am, if you don't appease me I can make sure you never work in this town again" so many times.

One agent got arsy with me and refused to book me over something really petty and stupid about 5 years ago.

I simply rang his clients and asked if they wanted me or not. When they started booking me directly he quickly changed his tune. I was fair and I gave him his clients back as soon as the point was made, but he collected no commission on 7 gigs before he realised he was cutting off his nose to spite his face.

He started alerting other agents to my behaviour and they simply became more aware of my existence and started giving me work.

About 10 years ago I got some very well paid gigs that I did not deserve simply because the people who booked me wanted to upset the crone that had tried to have me banned from working in a certain area. I found that trying to prevent me from working had exactly the opposite effect.

I find that most of my clients are hardy and intelligent people more than capable of handling a slightly rogue jester.

What most clients care about are the following:

1 Are you good.
2 Do you look good.
3 Are you reliable
4 Are you good value for money.

Most clients would prefer reliable competence over brilliance every time. I found that getting to the gig in plenty of time was far better than simply being fantastic. (Which a lot of us are.)

A blaggard on the pitch is worth 2 Prima Donnas stuck in traffic.

And the truth is, people are far more likely to book someone with a website (even an old one like mine) than reccomendation from a friend.

That said. Could everyone please forget every nasty thing I ever said and give me work. Ta.

[firegirl]

Originally posted by Steven Ragatz
Right or wrong, who is to say, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is care free about their public image in a public place (such as this board) would be able to present themselves with a good public image at a performance event as well.

don't know that i agree... as, i think we all could put on our best behavior & such... but, it's an interesting (and, worthy of careful consideration by some) point.

[martin ewen]

Just my opinion.

"Right or wrong, who is to say,"
Why you do Steven, every time you make a judgment based on your own values that effect someone you've never met or never seen but who's behavior doesn't meet your approval.
Lets just be honest, people who behave, You approve of , and there are benefits in having your approval, you spell that out quite literally.
And people who don't behave, (whatever that means.) You presume to be by nature misbehavers.
You are obviously respected as a performer, I wouldn't consider your superior paternal opinions in this virtual forum necessarily an impediment however, funnily if I were you, I would.

[firegirl]

ANOTHER POINTLESS POST... ha!

as i stated previously:

i have found over the past years that sometimes people on this forum are quite different in person than they appear on this forum. in fact - 99% of the people i have met after chatting with them on the forums have been quite different (in both good and bad ways) than they were on p.net.

i remember when i was in new orleans - after i stopped doing my show & was working as a bartender - that an individual (who will remain nameless unless he chooses otherwise) came into the bar where i was working one night and introduced himself by his actual name to me... we chatted for a long while & it seemed as if this person knew an awful lot of stuff about me... what i did, what i used to do, who i was friends with... and, i finally asked them if we had met each other previously. the person then told me that they were one of the many entities which persue this forum... in fact that he was someone whom i found to be a very distasteful writer & a personality who i had had some amount of conflict with.

but, in person - this individual was fun, funny and someone i enjoyed being around. we are now rather good chums.

on the flip side - there is another individual (who shall also remain nameless) whom i thought was just effing adorable on the p.net boards... and, at first - when i met that person - i thought they were effing adorable in person, too... until i had gotten to know that individual pretty well (*ahem*) and found out what a untrustworthy, unreliable, backstabbing, coniving, immature, unfocused, lying TWIT they actually are.

now i go out of my way to avoid that person both on p.net and in real life.

i really don't think you can judge a person based on what they post here.

for myself - i would be very uncomforatable either reccomending [or, giving a poor review of them (as a person) to a producer or other hiring entity] someone for a job if i didn't know them in person. if i hadn't seen their show.

there are people who i know from p.net who i'll never pass on work to -- not because i don't like them... because, i have never seen their show.

there are people who i know from p.net who i don't really like much either on the boards or in person - who's show i'll reccomend again and again -- because they are JUST THAT GOOD.

but, i will never either say a positive or negative thing (which could affect someone's employment status) about someone who i've never met or who's show i've never seen.

it just ain't right.

and, i say this being someone who ALWAYS looks for ways to help other people get work... i pass along a lot of contacts/job ops to people who i know (in person) and trust (i've seen their work.) i do this because i get stuff offered to me that i cannot do, isn't right for me/my schedule, stuff i just don't want to do... and, god knows i've had enough good contacts passed my way by my friends (who know me in person) who trust me (have worked with/seen my work.)

i say this, myself being someone whom people may or may not have a positive "image" of based on my own opinions/writings... but, i think that the people who actually KNOW me can speak to my actual character, etc... better than those who have only occasionally heard me spout off on p.net.

granted - i do do myself the favor of admitting all my flaws and foibles upfront...

neither here nor there.
i like steven...
i like martin...
so...
yeah.

i'm out to enjoy the beautiful weather.
peace turkeys!
kate

[Steven Ragatz]

Wow, you try to express on simple little thought and folks get angry and a bit bent out of shape...

The only point I was really interested in making was in response to the notion that agents and producers read the boards and might form an opinion based on an individual's online behavior. I think that this may or may not be true, but since I only know of one agent who even knows of this site, I have no information to support that notion.

The point that I was trying to add was that I think a greater likelihood of gaining or losing gigs comes from the relationships established online with fellow performers. Everyone here knows that word of mouth is a very powerful tool for getting gigs. I am only trying to suggest that fellow P.Net members, like myself, are influenced by the content on this board, and that it turn may effect the word of mouth referrals.

Steven Ragatz

[gav]

I agree

what you're saying is true. On occasion I have been asked what I know of whatever performer by orginisers, and sometimes all I can tell them is what I know from this forum. I do however point out that fact and explain to them that in most likely hood they're probably very different in person. It's my experience on forums that people see it as a way to release frustrations and angst in an anonymous enviroment, often coming across as complete tossers, when in fact their actually pretty cool people when you meet them. Unfortunately, few of us here are, or want to be anonymous, and we should all keep this in mind.

[firegirl]

OPINIONATED

Originally posted by Steven Ragatz
Wow, you try to express on simple little thought and folks get angry and a bit bent out of shape...

i am neither angry or bent out of shape... i was only expressing my own opinion on the topic.

[jester]

You may not be angry or bent. But I'll bet you are currently out of shape?

[firegirl]

no - i am actually in fairly good shape. everyone can use more work (toning) but, i am fairly active and a "closet" athlete. i enjoy running, hiking, biking and swimming three times a week -- and, am doing an upper body conditioning class w/my flat-mate to prep myself to do aerial work.

why?

[jester]

I am impressed. I only know about 3 people (non gerbils) in the whole world who aren't out of shape by the time they are 30. However, arial work is the exception.

You're going to tell me you're younger than that now aren't you?

Just a stab in the dark. Good luck with the arial stuff. I used to do it a little. I was in shape then.

[firegirl]

no - i'm 32.

i have a mfa in "movement theory and practice for the stage." so - i know the importance of taking care of your body - which is your instrument.

i'm not saying that i'm in the *best* shape i could be in -- but, given that i can run three miles w/out stopping (on an elyptical trainer - i injured the patela in my right knee badly when i was a teenager - before that i was a dancer) i'd say i'm doing alright.

i also live in the city of hills (san fran) w/no car... you can get in wicked good shape just by walking to work everyday.

funny - most of the people i know are fitness obsessed in one way or another.

i'm a little more relaxed than that - i work out three times a week now... when i lived in la i worked out for an hour and a half every morning at the gym & then often had another type of physical class (stage combat, acrobatics, etc...) at other points during the week.

[jester]

I am not worthy.

People think I should be in good shape because I have a very high energy show and I can do it without really getting into a sweat.

This is because I have learned the most ergonomic way of doing these tricks and my muscles can cope with them really well.

However, if I don't rehearse.. (and that's where energy is burned) I put on weight. And I can really bloat sometimes.