Same ol' Same ol'

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  • jesus
    Senior Member
    • May 2005
    • 418

    Same ol' Same ol'

    Well....this might get ugly folks.
    Anyone that has ever sat down with me knows what I think of "stock shows" and the over use of "stock lines".
    In Shrewsbury this past summer I was talking/drinking with Byron, Gav and Jim and jokingly asked Jim how he felt about P-Net helping to homogenize so many shows.
    He was offended (rightly so, and I again apologize), and said if I felt so strongly about stock standard crap I should post up about it. And so I am.
    This past weekend I meet someone doing the most standard of juggling/straight jacket shows. I introduced myself and commenced to make small talk, where have you worked & who do you know kind of stuff.
    Very quickly I was told "you swallow swords, I have a friend that does it too, he uses this line and I am sure you do too.”Down the hatch without a scratch""
    "Ah nope don’t use it."
    The chat went on and began to cover bits that this person does that all his friends use as well. (One example was to give a boy a dollar and then tell him to give it to a girl and then tell him to get used to it.)
    So here is my real question, why?
    Why do people do such standard stuff?
    Why doesn’t it phase them at all?
    Has doing a street show come to be just an alternative way to make money for people that don’t want a “real” job?
    Do the people doing shows this way consider themselves artists?
    Years ago I heard a performer say “I don’t have any problem with stealing material, I know it works.” So maybe I already have my answer and in reality this practice has little to no effect on me, I will continue to be hired by festivals because I am different and I will be appreciated on the street for the same reason, but I would like to understand.

    Before the poop really hits the fan let me be clear that I understand there are damned few original ideas in the world. I am far from the first person to swallow a sword and yes lots of people do the balloon swallow. However that is not the same as doing a complete routine in an almost identical way to someone else.
    Help me understand.
  • Lee Nelson
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2001
    • 352

    #2
    This is why they do it.

    Its business!

    You have seen the lines work so that is a variable that is taken care of.

    This equals no risk.

    Other people made it up and a precedent is set that the lines are in the public domain.

    This equals no start up / research costs.

    You have seen the performance earn money.

    This equals self belief that is is an attainable goal.


    Why doesnt it phase them....

    Why should it???? Their primary goal is to make money.
    Not being concerned is based in lack of experience and exposure. As soon as that is addressed it will begin to phase them. It will phase them when they try to go up a level and find they cant because their product is not the desired one.

    Has doing a street show become.....alternative lifestyle...???

    Yes. It always has been an alternative lifestyle. Its what drew me to it.

    Do they consider themselves artistes???

    Yes, except when they are around real artistes/more experienced performers.

    When I look back at my career doing this variety thing I think I followed a very similiar route myself.
    Today I have something original that I am proud of. This mainly came about thru ambition not to be the person you are writing about. But I never knew I was that person until I got out of my little fishbowl and saw what I could become.

    Dont let it bother you Jeff. You aint gonna change anything.
    Last edited by Lee Nelson; Oct-07-2008, 12:00 PM.

    Comment

    • Butterfly Man
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2000
      • 1606

      #3
      It’s all Frankie Olivier’s fault.

      When I came onto the street scene in the early 70’s, I saw acts that were ALL original in their presentation. They might have been jugglers or magicians or mimes but they all had unique acts. No two acts looked or acted alike as far as I could see.

      I am not saying that all those acts used original material … to be honest, I wouldn’t have known if they did or not because I didn’t know squat about show business at the time.

      Then, in the early 80’s, came boom boxes and the little black mimes … things changed pretty quick after that. A plethora of jugglers soon appeared as well, no doubt a result of thinking “I can do that … that’s my ticket”

      Then, the whole world it seemed, opened up to street performing. Expo’s in Australia & Japan, festivals across Canada and the scene in Europe soon attracted US and British acts.

      Pitches, worldwide, were found and filled.

      Then it became more about the money.

      Then it died.

      Comment

      • Cybele
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2002
        • 126

        #4
        I would steal Scotty Meltzer's line and say "Different isn't always better, but better is always different."

        I would steal it, but I can't, because I just credited him.

        Line stealing is a common offense, though.

        There are many performers who can come up with new bits, but can't come up with new PATTER.

        Writing is a separate skill. But we've been trained to believe that any monkey who can hold a crayon is a writer. Which maybe makes jugglers and sword swallowers and magicians monkeys with crayons.

        This is not to say that there are not performers who write well- Scotty Meltzer, for example. Peter Panic. Butterfly Man. Mike Rose. Michael Rosman. Drew Richardson.

        Because many people tend to think about writing in a way that they think about breathing- very little, not at all, or as something you don't need to practice- there is going to be a lot of line-stealing. If you steal a line that works, you don't have to practice writing until you get your own good line. Then you've got more time to practice rope-walking or hand-balancing instead.

        I don't know if I've answered your question, Geoff/Thom/jesus/whomever, or if I've agreed with Lee only paraphrased, or opened a completely new can of worms, but this is my theory: writing is HARD. It's harder than people think it is. It is much harder to do well than it looks. It may be as hard to do well as it is to do any variety skill well.

        But you can't simply steal a good fire-eating trick, drop it into your show and have it work.

        You have to practice, at least a little.

        Comment

        • Evan Young
          Senior Member
          • May 2001
          • 1002

          #5
          I know a couple performers who make me laugh constantly off stage using charm and whit and a funny personality, but don't have a single original line in their show. It seems like such a waste of talent.

          I have a few stock jokes in my show, but every year I lose one or two.

          Comment

          • Butterfly Man
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2000
            • 1606

            #6
            the secret to writing is writing

            This should help:

            Comment

            • jesus
              Senior Member
              • May 2005
              • 418

              #7
              Dough!

              Okay I can agree with the fact that in the early years of doing a show, stock stuff can be like training wheels.
              But at some point the training wheels need to come off.
              So yes I guess I must agree that it is money.
              To take that to a philosophical level, why is it just about money?
              We need to only turn on the news or pick up a paper to see where that leads.
              Think of my countries contribution to mankind: Wal-Mart.
              Money, money, money with no concern for quality.
              Money, money, money, it seems to have led to the over abundance of crap we don’t need.
              There was a time when craftsmen took pride in the work they did and not just the pay the recieved.
              Further I would bet dollars to doughnuts that a majority of these “stock show” folks I am speaking of are the same people that speak out against the evils of capitalism and greed.
              I also bet they are the ones that would bemoan the music industries homogenizing of music.
              Yep its greed, its everywhere and its sad.
              Last edited by jesus; Oct-08-2008, 10:25 AM.

              Comment

              • Evan Young
                Senior Member
                • May 2001
                • 1002

                #8
                Damn good points Geoff!

                Comment

                • jeep caillouet
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 752

                  #9
                  jesus

                  Me too B Man when I came on to the seen in the early 70's there were a lot of creative people... Jesus, that's been my point all along, once you've seen one juggler you've seen them all. They all do the same thing,juggle!You know to create something new is a very very hard thing to do,and not every one can do it.There can be creative juggling but I see very little here in Key West.May be some of you real creative jugglers could come to Key West and help us out. Mark Riggs came to key West some time ago, but remember he as well did Tom's show which did Michael James show, which probably did...( now your gett'en before my time),but Mark has the unusual talent to create and write new lines. And nearly every juggler in Key West has stole or used his lines,hell I even use a few of his lines from time to time when I need to. One juggler just starting out here stole his entire show lines and all word for word.When Mark confronted him about it he told him "Because you make more money than anyone else". Jesus!We liked to have never got him to do his own show, but he tries and its better. I really hate to see a juggler, next to a juggler, next to a juggler all doing the same thing, juggling three fire clubs... "watch me I'm better, give me all your money" routine. I consider that not be very creative. I start my show out every night with" Show time over here, No juggling,no straight jackets, and no sword swallowing,my show is about tricks"... My routine is about using my dog Cleo to trick you out of your money. And I made up every bit of my routine to do just that. So come guys be creative. B man thanks for sharing that site with us,it will help me for sure when I have time to digest some of that information. Oops, gotta go time for another joint and a beer

                  Comment

                  • Schuyler
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 186

                    #10
                    Re: Dough!

                    Originally posted by jesus
                    Okay I can agree with the fact that in the early years of doing a show, stock stuff can be like training wheels.
                    But at some point the training wheels need to come off.
                    So yes I guess I must agree that it is money.
                    To take that to a philosophical level, why is it just about money?
                    We need to only turn on the news or pick up a paper to see where that leads.
                    Think of my countries contribution to mankind: Wal-Mart.
                    Money, money, money with no concern for quality.
                    Money, money, money, it seems to have led to the over abundance of crap we don’t need.
                    There was a time when craftsmen took pride in the work they did and not just the pay the recieved.
                    Further I would bet dollars to doughnuts that a majority of these “stock show” folks I am speaking of are the same people that speak out against the evils of capitalism and greed.
                    I also bet they are the ones that would bemoan the music industries homogenizing of music.
                    Yep its greed, its everywhere and its sad.
                    There's got to be a great deal of satisfaction in the idea that you have a better show than they'll ever do though.

                    Comment

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