You would do it anyway...

[UCO]

I am confused on how to deal with this responce.
I will explain. I got done with my show here in Berlin and it was a good on considering the short stints of rain the drunks and the Gutter punks dog barking.
When the show was over I was approached by a well dressed guy with one of those pho hawks that are so popular these days.
So he asks me if I would do bits of my show for his company party taking place this weekend. I was intrested seeing how this could be my chance at a meal not taken from the local currywurst dealer.
When I ask the dude about money, he looked at me and then looked at my hat and said.
"Well you were going to do it anyway" I was puzzled by the fact that he looked at my hat that I was transfering into a more secure place. ( The hat was meager and by no means was a record breaker)
I said probably, but this is how I make my living sooo? Looking suprised he then gets huffy and says " "Just look at my party like a rehersal. " At this moment a sound unlike anything I have ever let go came from deep down. This was totaly involentary.
As he left calling me a cheap bastard ( A line stolen from the show used against me, I found this clever ) but I felt somewhat violated and confused. Leaving the pitch with resentment. I got over it as I passed the Absinth Depot.
My question is that when is it the good time to ask for money when approached?
Or does anyone else have a good "get out of paying" story

[unklesteve]

Wow.

I love how people assuming that if you are performing on the street, it's because you don't have "a job", and you're just doing it for kicks and some beer money.

Insane. I might have punched the guy. Especially if he had a faux-hawk.

Feh.

[Rachel Peters]

Hey, UCO. That really sucks.
I have a feeling it had nothing to do with you or the timing of your asking for money. It sounds like it was just his ignorance.
Better you found out right away that he wasn't willing to pay than when you arrived to his company party.

As a young artist I have gotten a lot of conversations like this, where the assumption is made that I'll do anything for exposure.
A lot of these people have no idea that I've gotten far greater exposure than they could ever offer (like, "Will you illustrate a kid's book that my niece wrote? It'll be a great opportunity for you, and we'll show it to our neighbours!")
I've gotten to the point where the words "great opportunity" make me bridle.
If I suspect they may be one of these people, I don't ask what they're willing to pay, I just announce what I go for (and use my professional, corporate fees).
...To people who seem reasonable and who seem like genuine opportunities (or if I just really like them), I approach the situation with asking and negotiating.
(but even sometimes, when I really WANT to do the job, but I just don't have the energy to cut someone a break like I normally would, I can only make it worth it to myself by announcing my fees. It's not worth being resentful over.)

I've had people get angry with ME because I wouldn't just make them stuff. ...And big stuff, like toys. Multiple toys, even.
Somehow I must come off as if it's their right to demand of me. I'm expected to give myself away. ...like I'm an exposure whore. (whoa... that sounded way worse than I intended it to.)

Street seems to have the same sort of downfall, as you often ARE giving yourself away, when people can enjoy your show and walk away without putting anything in the hat.

Anyway, all that to say that I don't think it was you at all.

By the way, I have a great opportunity for you! I just happen to be real bored at home right now and was wondering if you'd be interested in coming over to do a show! I can give you a pot of coffee. ...You could perform on the front lawn and it'll be great exposure for you, around the neighbourhood!

[UCO]

For you Rachel Showtime

I would do a small show in your front yard and all it would take would be the exposure to the cold. can I use the coffee cup to collect strands of dignity in ? It is still freezing there?

[pablo]

Exposure.

"Exposure" is the oldest, lamest, cheapest line of BS that is invariably used by someone who thinks you were born yesterday.

When someone says the word "exposure" to me, I tell them that I have a wife, 2 kids, a dog, 2 cars and a mortgage, and if I want exposure I'll take off my clothes and sit in the sun.

[Rachel Peters]

Re: For you Rachel Showtime

Originally posted by UCO
I would do a small show in your front yard and all it would take would be the exposure to the cold. can I use the coffee cup to collect strands of dignity in ? It is still freezing there?

Who said anything about a CUP? I'll give you the coffee, but you have to lap it out of your cupped hands.

[jester]

Their psychology works like this:

"I am paying an interest in you. You are clearly a struggling artist, and almost a beggar, you should be grateful for anything I can offer.

"This is a big opportunity for you. I am a regular person with a regular income, I am better than you, I am willing to let you practice your art upon me. I don't think anybody else in the world appreciates you as much as me.

"How greedy of you to expect reward from me. And how audacious to expect more than half of what I would earn for a day in just a couple of hours."

"It's not like it's a real skill or anything, you are just good at doing something completely stupid."

I get this a lot. But watch out, you can make the same mistake.

After a while you get fed up with people offering you gigs and I once assumed that somebody was offering me a bum deal. I smiled and nodded and assumed that they were angling for a cheap entertainer. So I smiled and nodded and gave them a card. They then said. Great! You've got a website. By the way, what would you expect to earn in a day. So I replied slightly above (nothing to lose, they normally go into palpitations when I mention my fee) and they said:

"That is excellent. Thats about what we would normally pay and you are so much better...."

.. I had been very tempted to be discouraging when they first approached me. I got a very good gig out of it.

[caricatureguy]

Yup. We all get it. I have gotten it so often that I was actually charging seperate fees for a job where I thought the guests might actually tip me pretty well. Sometimes I make more than I would have normally because I am allowed to work for tips. I would normally charge, say... 150 penguins per hour but would cut them a deal where I would work for 100 or 125 if I could accept tips from their guests. They were more than happy with this because they percieved that they were saving tons of money.

Meanwhile I was making an extra 75 penquins per hour on top of my hourly fee...

Moral of the story: Tell them you will give them a discount if you think it would be an event where you might do well.

[Mama Lou]

Dude, that sucks. Nothing like having an asshole tell you he thinks you are worth less than, say, a can of soda.

This pisses me off the most.
When I was doing shows around Christmas time I saw people inside the GAP - fretting over what color of polar fleece to buy for kids - spending hundreds on shit all because the label and then walking away after watching my whole show without so much as a thank you... GAP bags in tote.

I'm still working on my social theory based on this behavior, but it frustrates me to no end that because something is "legitimized" by a building, a tag, or a spokes person that it is a great deal at any price.

I had some hula-hoops out over the holidays to grab people's attention. A grandma came up and asked me where in the market she could buy them for her granddaughter's gift. I told her I made them myself, that they are better than the ones you can buy at the store, and that I would gladly sell them (new or professionally used) at $12 a piece. She walked away.

[Butterfly Man]

can a tattoo be considered a "tag"?

I never talked business on the street ... always made the bastards call me ... when they did I had this and a pencil with me ... after I was done asking all the following questions they had invested so much of their time they were willing to pay me anything just to get rid of my professional ass.

POTENTIAL GIG INFO. SHEET

DATE: ____________

NAME OF CONTACT: ##
#
#, ##

TELEPHONE: Work: #
Home: #

Referred By:
Type/Name of event: Indoors? / Outdoors?
Number of Performances:
Length of Performance(s):
Date(s):
Time(s):
Location:

SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS (Info. on Contract Rider):
(1) Need travel instructions?
(2) Need sketch map of performing site?
* (NOTE: CEILING HEIGHT & DIMENSIONS OF STAGE PLATFORM)
(Performing area within ten feet of audience)
(3) Need sketch map of parking and loading areas?
* (NOTE: PARKING SHOULD BE PREPAID, IF APPLICABLE)
(4) Need access to private dressing room w/ mirror?
(5) Need pre-show sound check?
(6) Need assistance in unloading props?
(8) Need biographical sketches of six individuals who will be present during the performance and are well known to the general audience?


Fee for Performance:

Travel (inc. type of travel, cost & any special arrangements required): ______________

Room: _____

Meals: ______

Other (inc. excess baggage fees, special insurance, etc.): _____________________

Total Cost For Performance: ___________

** Note: All fees to be paid prior to performance.
** Note: Will send contract / cover letter to be signed and returned before booking can be finalized.

Other Materials To Be Sent W/ Contract/ Cover Letter:

Biz card Bio.

Brochure Resume

8x10 Photo Other

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Contract/ Cover letter sent out on: _________

Follow-up: _____________________
Booking finalized on: ________________
Booking date placed on calendar: __________

[gav]

prior

Hey Butterflyman, what percentage of gigs actually paid 'all fees' prior to the event ?
This is something very foreign to me here in Europe. Especially in Italy where quite a few festivals want to pay you 3 months after the gig.

[Frisbee]

one way to ensure a timely payment is to add to your contract:

payments made after 30 days of performance will incur a 10% penalty fee.

I have never had any payment that was late beyond that 30 days.

In my contract I also state payment is due on or before performance date.

Most people will pay you on the day of an event either before or after your performance, but some companies have paperwork to file and need invoicing and going thru billing departments etc...which is why I have that 30 day clause.

[Peter Voice]

My last 4 contracts have been paid up, in full, on my arrival for the gig. I'm getting quite used to it and am now expecting it.

My argument is, if I turn up ready to work (admittedly all were in foreign countries and they have already paid airfares and deposit) then my commitment is proven. I expect my client to show similar commitment. Most seem to understand that if I'm confident and happy, the work is better.

I guess the difference is that my work takes days, sometimes weeks to complete and nearly always has a very specific purpose that the client is planning for. It's not a 40mins. show.

I have recently told several potential clients that they should find some-one else because they are not happy with my expectations.

I also double my fee when pissed off during negotiations and that has had some surprisingly positive results.

[miquee]

gav,
i work in italy all the time and i manage to get about 50% of my jobs paid the same day in cash. I tell them that i am leaving the country immediatey after the festival and they "find" a way to pay you. I have also waited 10 months to get paid and had to threaten with a lawyer a few times. There are certain festivals in italy where i wouldn't work at unless i was paid up front cuz you'll never see your money. I know one in particular in abruzzo that owes half the performers in italy payment. theres another in abruzzo where one of the organisers ran off with all the money and left the other organizer in a shit situation. viva l'italia

[gav]

I manage to get paid at the end of festivals too. Never before though. It takes a bit of doing in Italy some times. They insist for quite some time that it's just not possible to pay in cash right away, but I just tell them I'm not coming if that won't be the case.
The Italian artisits I know tell me it's quite common to wait untill september to get paid for a gig they did in July. Most of them go along with it.
Something to do with city budgets apparently.