Ban Performance Enhancing Drugs from Showbusiness

[Peter Voice]

Jester, I can't feel threatened by what I see as a totally absurd proposition. I call Sir Mick Jagger to the witness box and immediately rest my case.

I merely asked what your motive is for wanting to interfere with other people's private lives. I fail to see the closed-minded bigotry in my remarks but I'll watch the "tone" of my typing in the future.

The only Lobby I've been known to associate with is a 58yo chain-cigar-smoking guitarist well known in Aust. for his band "Lobby Lloyd and the Coloured Balls" and he would think you're very funny.

[jester]

Nasty Man wanna take away my drugs maaaaan!

Isn't there anybody out there who can articulately argue against me?

Mick Jagger.

Ugly old fucker from London with terrible fake New Orleans accent who recently accepted some ponced up knighthood. Got loads of money, had lots of hits, lots of people beleive in him because they are too dim to comprehend God.

Keith Richards. Hah!

Bill Wyman. Dodgy Pedarist who dated a 13 year old, then married her when she was old enough and she divorced him as soon as she was old enough to get her own lawyer.

All I can say is I prefer Phil Lynnot and Thin Lizzy... but I think he took a few too many pills.

Mama Cass
Sid Viscious
Keith Moon

At least Micks still alive.

[jester]

My motive is simple.

If the industry enforce a ban on performance enhancing drugs me and about 11 others would have a monopoly and become very rich very quickly.

It would be short lived. Other talents would come through who could cope but by then I would have had my 15 minutes and be a has been, rather than a "nearly was."

[Stephon]

Performance enhancement through the use of drugs is self-regulating: Either the drugs do in fact enhance the performance (in which case it's truly none of your damned business), or they hinder the performance, which eventually results in some combination of lost revenue, arrest, and death.

If the case where the drugs help, the only real issue is whether the drugs are legal or illegal, and that has nothing to do with the topic you're addressing.

It seems the real point of this topic is to attempt to impose your moral agenda on others, with next to nothing in the way of concrete, substanative support for your views; that's your right, this is an open forum. Believing that your agenda is a bunch of hogwash is our right.

Up on false self esteem they then go on to piss off all the other artists

And you've managed to do just that. All without the use of performance enhancing drugs. Wow, maybe you are right, at that.

[jester]

Stephon and Evan.

Wow you guys are easy to upset aren't you. Why is that?

When debating something, it is very easy to slip into "and everybody else thinks you're a wanker" kind of drivel. Up until then Stephon I was enjoying your contribution.

I'm not imposing my moral agenda. If I wanted to do that I'd run for office. I'm debating it. And what is wrong with my having a moral agenda and challenging yours? I have conviction. It'll take more than a few personal insults to change my mind.

I think your contribution had no substance and lots of unnecessary spite. I may be in a minority here, but I am entitled to debate my opinion in a civilised manner. As for substance, switch your humour glands on, it's not that subtle.

I'm clearly enjoying this much more than you are, but please don't rush into judging me on the strength of one topic. It just makes you look nasty.

[theballoonman]

I once experimented with drugs....

Its a forty year experiment...

I'm half way there...

I need another coffee.

hhhhmmmm.... maybe smoking pot no help me writ so goood afteral.

Mkie

[Brian]

Stephon. I am in favour of you taking whatever you want whenever you want as long as you don't drive on the same roads I do.

However, you do not speak for me. Jester is pulling your leg. You look very dumb from where I'm sitting. I've heard him talk on this subject and I'm surprised at how slowly he's taking this.

Whatever you do, don't ask him about "your own personal use." You will not like the answer.

Heh Heh.

[Stephon]

Alright, I obviously need to clarify some things. In order to do that, I need to reference some things Jester sent to me in a private e-mail; I have asked him to let me know if he has any problem with that. Since, I haven't heard anything back in several hours, I'm going to assume it's ok.

I found your post unecessarily insulting, without actually explaining what your problem is. Is it because I have a different opinion than you or have I actually said something you find offensive

Please do not confuse passion and straightforwardness with being insulting. I was not trying to be insulting, rather stating what I see as the facts--you've made statements about how things should be, not for you but for everyone, and then made no effort to support why your proposed ban should take place, other than you don't like it. That's an agenda, and you're saying it should be imposed on everyone . You talk about how you deal with your fatigue and illness thru exercise and willpower, while others resort to artificial stimulants. Since you think your way is better, that's a moral judgement. Hence, a moral agenda (and while I wouldn't say it offends me, it definitely pushes my buttons). I think the statement I made is completely supported by the things you've said in your posts:

• Ban the drugs. If they can't do it without them they can go do something else.
• I think the industry should be cleaning itself up and not tolerating drugs of any kind
• I'm talking about all performance enhancing drugs, legal or otherwise. And I think the industry should not only discourage, but should simply not tolerate it.

Jester:
And what makes you think you speak for everybody else?
Brian:
However, you do not speak for me

I don't think I speak for everybody else, and on that point I was not clear enough. When I said, "that's our right" I meant only those people who posted a serious response addressing your statements, all of whom, I believe, disagreed with you. Brian, as you had not yet posted when I did, obviously I wasn't talking about you.

please don't rush into judging me on the strength of one topic

I'm not. I'm responding to a pervasive "I know what's best for and/or wrong with other people" attitude that you have displayed in several posts, usually having to do with sex and/or drugs.


I'm amazed that you are so personally afronted by what you perceived to be the "unnecessarily" insulting tone of my post. Don't throw stones--was this neccessary:

Wow mini. You must have a PHD in stating the obvious

And to Peter:

Isn't there anybody out there who can articulately argue against me?
Mick Jagger.
Ugly old fucker from London with terrible fake New Orleans accent who recently accepted some ponced up knighthood. Got loads of money, had lots of hits, lots of people beleive in him because they are too dim to comprehend God.

Not only insulting, but a tangental rant that in no way addressed his point or supported yours.
You claim you're debating your position, when in fact you simply ignore other people's arguments and restate yours. That's not debate, it's imposition.

switch your humour glands on.
Jester is pulling your leg

Don't do that. That's a cop out. You weren't trying to be funny. From your first post:

I'm being serious now. I really do beleive that performance enhancing drugs should be banned from showbusiness
I think it is important.

You don't make any kind of light or humorous comment on this topic until your sixth post on the subject, after others had made it clear they thought your position was meritless. If you were in fact serious about what you were saying, then stand by it and don't equivocate by claiming it was satire. If your statements were tongue-in-cheek, or you're playing devil's advocate then clearly it was lost on several people, including me. If taking someone at their word makes me "look very dumb" well, then I have no defense.

It'll take more than a few personal insults to change my mind.
I currently have a very low opinion of you. Are you intelligent enough to change my mind?

Again, this is my point--I don't want to change your mind. Think and do what you will, but please don't tell me what's right for me. And as for your opinion of me and my intelligence: + +


Looking back at my last comment in the other post, I can certainly see that it was insulting. I thought I was being ascerbic and ironic, but it was, in fact, insulting.


Also, let me be clear that none of this is motivated by any personal feelings about drugs. I don't use recreational drugs; I lost interest in them after college, a long time ago. I don't care if other people use them, although I agree with Brian about staying off the roads I'm on.

Should I have stopped after making my comments about drugs being self-regulating? Maybe. However, you wanted to see if you'd get a fierce debate, Jester, and this is an open forum, so I sounded off.

It is of course your right to have your opinions, and to share them with others. It is mine to vehemently disagree with you, and share that, too.

[em]

right thats it i'll get the beers in and you lot can skin up...

[jester]

Stephon

Hey Stephon.

Okay. I admit I started out and did claim to be deadly serious. But it wasn't so much light heartedness as a desire to wind people up. You will notice that the usual suspects just saw straight through me and didn't bother with it.

I do have strong views about drugs and I would rather people didn't do them, and I would rather that People who are up one minute and then paranoid and aggressive the next would just stay away from me full stop.

However you are entitled to insult me (as you quite rightly said I challenge people myself. But Mini and I already have a little rapore with each other and he would know where I'm coming from.)

I think Mick Jagger is big enough to take some stick from an insignificant little Jester.

I really shouldn't have sent you an email but I wanted to see where you were coming from and I was trying to avoid airing my dirty laundry in public.

If you had thought about time zones you would have given me a little more time to respond to yours.

However, If I am ever appointed world dictator (I've got epilets and everything in readyness) I can assure you that freedom of speech will still be tolerated and I won't be taking back peoples Oscars.

I have other far more sinister moral agendas to impose....

[AJJames]

where can i get performance enhancing drugs ? i've been on a plateu for years now and I 'm too lethargic from smoking pot to practice or learn new tricks,if that's what you're thinking step into dr aj's natural pharmacy
there are things you can take to help you through what i call festival fatigue,
Guarana, caffeine, Taurine,Vitamin C ,B-complex supplement, Iron,
in foods, spinach ,spirulina, kelp, alfalfa sprouts,nuts and seeds..fresh fruit and vegetables. and on pitch munch on
super food bars made of dozens of fruits and vegetables,
drink pro biotic soya drinks
there are other powerful substances that are natural and legal , but i'm not telling everyone especially under 25 yr olds that can do more shows than me anyway.

[mini mansell]

beers

Originally posted by em
right thats it i'll get the beers in and you lot can skin up...

now your talking my language Em.


no wonder my creative juices are dry. i am on a self impossed alchohol free month. my xmas resolution this year was no beer or spirits for january. (inspired by a crazy mate who went dry for ALL of last year)

discovered i really like Tomato juice. cant wait intil i can turn it into Bloody mary's at the end of the month.

as a hard drinking northern type bloke its been quite a personal triumph to manage 28 days so far.

[Peter Voice]

Jester, you have certainly wound me up!

In a world full of war, disease, famine and cruelty, you are suggesting that "some-one" should cull the ranks of those who live, celebrate and share their art, the people who generate thought, laughter, music and movement?

This is our community you are suggesting should be decimated by some authority. I can't figure out where you're coming from anymore. There is little enough laughter and celebration in this world. Who cares if it needs the occasionally social lubricant or two.

[jester]

Okay Peter.

I'm sorry you are wound up. However keeping my opinion to myself won't help you.

But are you suggesting that drugs do not cause any of that misery?

I have nothing against social lubricants. I accept all of the legal drugs and there are a couple I would like to see legalised.

However, I think purchasing illegal drugs for your own personal use is the moral equivalent of downloading child porn. The pedo who does this beleives that he is not committing the child abuse therefore it is okay - yet it is they who are sponsoring it.

Well people who purchase illegal drugs are unwittingly sponsoring organised crime and terrorism. The drugs trade is responsible for a lot of misery in this world. It may be that legalising certain drugs might be the way forward, but until it is legalised, purchasing these drugs does not in any way improve make the world a happier place for the rest of it's inhabitants.

I am not seriously suggesting that you should be culled.

Also if you are wound up it is important to me that you argue with me and keep this debate alive. But remember, I am not acting upon my beleifs at this moment (save from abstaining from illegal drugs) and I have no power to do so.

I may also be very wrong in my views and I look forward to hearing yours. It would be nice if people could keep to the issues and not attack me personally though.

Nor do I feel angry at those people who disagree with me, even if a few of them have sent me some amazing emails.

[em]

um, although i would say that there are many things we partake in that also invloves organised crime and terrorism and are not illegal drugs....tobacco, alcohol and oil being 3 good examples...because something is deemed illegal does not make it neccessarily worse than legal things. Personally i think Nestle should be made illegal....they are responsible for countless deaths worldwide!
And on another note, the withdrawl from alcohol is meant to be far worse than from heroin.

(when i work in a rehab we would rather they sneak weed in than alcohol...makes for a much less aggresive night i can tell you!)