Prostitution and Porn

[jonnyflash]

Well, bringing this industry out of the criminal economy and subjecting it to the same regulation as any legal industry would almost certainly improve the working conditions for the women, and the "product" for the men, but I think the main problem is the society that makes these women's sex something that can be bought by strangers. I believe people are pretty rational and consistently shoot for what they see as their best option. These women are facing external circumstances that make selling sex their best option. All the crap that goes along with that (disease, pimps, extreme vulernability to all kinds of violence)
looks like regular old Kick-em-when-they're-down capitalism to me.
You can dress that ideology up, but you cant take it anywhere.


Maybe the "New American Century" will feature hospitals, schools, and social services closingand or/bakesaling, raffling,begging and pleading to scrape along at substandard levels, students pragmatically encouraged to sell sex to pay for their education.......
because....ONLY the million and billionaires are entitled to our immense public wealth.
or are they????.....maybe I blinked and missed something but......who's the real white trash?

[firegirl]

heh, heh...

i knew that there was a reason i liked jonnyflash...

couldn't have said it better.
cheers,
kk

btw - aren't you a canadian?

[ 09-22-2003: Message edited by: firegirl ]</p>

[le pire]

prostitution is 'legal' in France, but pimps are 'illegal.'

étienne

p.s. I want to change the New Hampshire license plate: "Live French or die."

[jonnyflash]

Im turning japanese I think Im turning japanese I really think so.
I was born in Canada, but after this summer (specially modified Crate taxi stolen, US's tourist scaring-awaying anti Canada campain(it was called SARS) next crate taxi fried(my fault, still sux) Im tempted to trade my citizenship for a more tourist and pitch - filled, less desperate hopeless theives saturated, fatter hatter country. Or at least limit my work in Canada to festivals and gigs.
Maybe its just a west coast thing. hora!

Its time to start writing a book. Ill call it
Money, Power and Pitches
by Jonathon Flash the 3rd, esquire and shit.

[jester]

I am enjoying this debate and I wish more people were taking part. Yep this is the way the world is. This is why Russia, desperate for hard currency is keeping the age of consent at just 12 so it can make big bucks out of a legalised prostitution and Pedo market.

I wish I knew the answers.

[AJJames]

Very interesting debate, I agree with richie, so many people are ashamed to admit to watching porn or employing the services of a sex worker. Me too ,I think that the seedy ,sordid nature is part of the attraction, i wonder if it was on the national health service, weather it would be as much of a turn on.
So Jonathan jester, what about male prostitutes, not gay but straight guys that get hired for sex by women? the demand is there too, though admittedly not as great, but its there, is that exploitation?
and on the subject of exploitaion, I think that the whole feminist perspective on the sex industry exploiting women as sex objects is backward. It is infact the emotional inadaquacies of the male libido that is exploited.
Ironically ,most porn moguls are men that pay women to exploit the sexual cravings of men.
I knew a girl who used to make a thousand dollars a day in tokyo as sex worker, she never had sex with the men, she would be asked to walk over them in stilletos, or whip them, chain them, piss and shit on them. after talking to her , my perspective changed! so who was more degraded.?the client or the worker?..

I love porn , except internet porn, that should be banned , all those pop-ups that you can't get rid of,magazines are much better,
I do think the dvd was the best thing to happen to porno movies though, being able to pause it where you want with no distortion...rewind.... fast forward.....how cool is that!

fire girl,i liked alot of what you said especially about prostitution happening as much outside the sex industry as in it very Karl Marx,
But may I ask... why do you feel the need to degrade men in your show? don't we do that all by our selves so well?
yours sardonically
AJ

[worldwidese]

It's not all exploitation. Right now they are having problems at the Mall Of The Americas with teenage girls who are prostituting themselves just for thrills.

Plus some women regard it as a very profitable business. They are exploiting men. When I was living in Cannes, France, there was one girl known as "Christine the Machine" who traded on the little pinkcheeked young sailors of the US Sixth Fleet. When they were in port she serviced up to 60 guys a day, and had the whole thing down to 16 minutes per person.

When we were performing at a hotel in Calcutta, India, there was a very elegant stripper on the bill who had lines of rich Indians outside her room all night. For them it was a highlight to have scored a white girl. The day before she left the country she took 2 big suitcases full of Rupees to the money changers to change them into pounds Sterling. She said she was going home to retire at the age of 29 with nobody at home being the wiser as to where she got so much money.

Prostitutes who are controlled by pimps is another matter. Yes. that is absolute exploitation.

Personally, I think porn is sick and ugly. Sorry, guys, but REAL men don't need porn!

[AJJames]

worldly , you said REAL men don't need porn? what about women enjoying porn? I have had several girl friends who enjoy porn,and i don't mean I badgered them into it, one recently instigated a shopping mission cos I didn't have any. Generally there is a difference ,men tend to be stimulated visually more than women ,and women tend to get turned on by stories, you only have to look at the kind of paperback novels that millions of women read, chicks love porn ,just not always the same kind of stuff us un-real men like.
so can i be a real man if I just enjoy porn rather than needing it?

[Peter Voice]

Real men don't need quiche either.

[worldwidese]

Women are usually more into erotica than porn and that's why they read books.

By the way, if I were a man and the chick I was with needed porn for stimulation, I would brush up my "bedside manners"

[AJJames]

Peter, nice Aussie saying there, heres another, grab a six pack ,beat the wife ...it's sport on 9!
I'm glad I'm british, glad I eat quiche and happy that I seem to always score with antipodean babes for some reason.
Touche worldly,
good retort, I can't defend my self there, It would be like describing how good my show is, I leave that to the audience.all I know is that I'm still learning.


[ 10-10-2003: Message edited by: AJJames ]

[ 10-10-2003: Message edited by: AJJames ]</p>

[AJJames]

I currently have an injured leg, as an acrobat that's pretty fucked , the point of the story is that I have nothing better to do than this, while I'm resting up. so sad bastard that I am I have just read an intollerable number of recent posts by " worldwidese" to try and get an essence of the person behind the self rightous indignation. This was futile , as all that seems to come out of her keyboard is judgement and disinformation aka bullshit, it's so easy to cast the first stone from behind a rock, but who the fuck is she? has anyone actually met her?
My theory is that as a puppeteer ,she has control issues, and as the real world seems to be out of her's, the cyber world is the next best thing. very sad.
now can we get back to some intelligent discourse on any subject, I don't care what, if it's global politics, sexual politics, socialism vs capitalism, pharmaceuticals vs homeopathy, anything we can get our teeth into rather than turning every interesting debate into a series of infantile and banal taunts.

[pizzapiss]

Hi AJ
THis is me? I knew you would be around here..
Hope you are OK..email me OK!
edited to say, check your email!

[ 10-12-2003: Message edited by: yorkshirepudding ]</p>

[le pire]

Real men don't need porn... but imaginary men do!

See ya in the fantasy world, boys and girls!


étienne

[worldwidese]

To AJ. My apologies if I hit a nerve. If you are "still learning" watching porn is definitely one way to go. I just wanted to point out that it's better to get real life experience. I don't imagine that Casanova had much spare time to delve into porn. He was too busy.