Prostitution and Porn

[LUCKY DIAMOND RICH]

I do not know how many performers there are out there,that are in to going to strip clubs and visting prostitutes,or watching porn ,one of the oldest proffessions in the world!
But it amazes me at how,the amount of denial and judgment there is about this tabboo subject!
I lost my virinity to a prostitute and got a tattoo the same night in Kings Cross/ Sydney /Australia when I was travelling,with Ashton Circus at the age of 16 years old,WOW!
What a night............
I am not ashamed of my journey and what I have done,with my life!

But I am amazed at the denial of all these Closet Sinners out there,who go around and make out that they are angle's when really they have more of a problem with it all then most,but performers are good at living a double life's after all.

I am interested in what others have to say,about it all.What are your views?

LDR

[firegirl]

i don't know why people are afraid or ashamed to talk bout it either, lucky...??

i've stripped for short periods twice... once when stranded in LA... to buy plane tix back home for xmas... and, the other when my car unexpectedly broke down in new orleans and i had no gigs...

if guys want to give me money to look at my *assets* it isn't much different than my show then, is it? any nitwit can stick fire in their mouths... it takes something else to make $$ doing it... LOL

[jester]

If firegirl wants to take her assetts out for money that's her business. But if you want to help finance somebodies drug habit because you want to exploit her sexually then you have every reason to be ashamed.

[firegirl]

just like in every other aspect of life there are going to be people who are motivated by the desire to exploit someone's weaknesses... this is not unique to the sex industry... take a look at the catholic church... at the child care and education industry... at wall street...

if you think that the only place where people are "prostituted" is in strip clubs or brothels -- than you are severely misguided... and, i wish i lived on the planet you did...

just because a girl CHOOSES to work in a strip club -- it doesn't mean that girl is a prostitute or drug addict... it is simply a misnomer which our culture has perpetrated upon woman who are comfortable enough with their own sexuality to capitalize on what all men want and most are ashamed to admit to wanting...

it's completely the madonna/whore syndrome...

and - personally - i find it very hyprocritical that "society" would even TRY to in this day in age plaster big ole' proverbial scarlett letters on women who make these choices... especially since the 'sex industry' would cease to exist if MEN stopped patronizing it and because the modern media glorifys women such as cher, madonna, christina aguilara, britney spears and many others who flaunt what they've got with far little class or taste than the average stripper that i know...

and - in fact - i have found that it is quite the opposite... when i was working as a dancer i knew women who were putting themselves thru college... mothers with little education who were trying to send their kids to private school... young woman who were stranded or stuck in the area with no source of income... hell - there was one girl who was paying for her training for the olympic kickboxing team by stripping... the fucked up, drugged up, girls who'd go down on ya for and extra $10 were in the minority... and, where they do exist... you can find the same fucked up people in any industry. period.

so stick that in ur puritanical pipes and smoke it.
*hrumph*

[em]

mmm. on the subject of prostitutes. Here in the UK there are a VAST number of street workers with no access to safe brothels. I lived in the red light district of Bristol for 4 years and drive through it everyday now to get to town. 99% of these women are totally fucked. classic skinny bodies, dark hollow eyes and much foundation to cover sores. sometimes the "boyfriend" or pimp sits lurking in the shadows. Everyday i see this, often passing one working on everycorner of the street. Now this is not through choice but absolute neccesity. If they didn't work the street they could not make enough money to sustain their habits , as often they have to bring in enough to keep both her and her partner ticking over in crack or smack. And the problem is that the smack dulls the misery of consistent violent abuse, degredation and depression, becoming a vicious circle impossible to get out of. Now i know you all know this as you are all well informed, and i know that there are many women who are prostitues by choice, and i also have no problem with the drug fucked street workers (i work with alot of ex addicts). BUT i do have a problem with the large BMW cars that curb crawl me when have to walk through the area, and often every car that i see either picking up or dropping off a worker is of this ilk. And i cannot see that this is a good, safe and beneficial working relationship. And of course i don't see the healthy and clean "choice" driven women as they are all hopefully in safe working brothels or flats and not in the back shed of my last house getting fucked for her next 10 bag of brown. And actually i have no issue with men using prostitutes, i know many who do, but we have to be aware of the deep misery that many women are in in this proffession.

[firegirl]

...i understand what you're saying, em... and, i would think that the decriminalization of the "prostitution industry" would allow for legislation to regulate it... to provide clean, safe places for these woman to work... to provide treatment and rehabilitation for ones who are addicts... ??? maybe... who knows.

i really know little more about prostitution than what i read in the papers... i was ranting on behalf of the "strip club" industry because i resented the very subtle implication that *all* (read: me) strippers are messed up druggies...

anyhow... anyone from amsterdam care to log in an opinion on this?

[ 08-16-2003: Message edited by: firegirl ]</p>

[Karen aka Canvas Clown]

I heard that in Canada, they protect their strippers (and the resulting tax base) by making it difficult for non-citizens to get licenses. Evidently, the "busker" category is what foreign strippers must register as ... I hear that when this law came into place, the records showed a swelling of "buskers" becoming licensed... nearly exclusively females. Hmmm... Perhaps this story is false, so feel free to invalidate it... Either way, it's food for thought.

[Evan Young]

[quote]Originally posted by jester:
<strong>If firegirl wants to take her assetts out for money that's her business. But if you want to help finance somebodies drug habit because you want to exploit her sexually then you have every reason to be ashamed.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I make most of my money by flirting with girls in my audience. Ask any of the Boulder performers, it's my strongest asset. Now what if I told you that my nose is bleeding as I type this?

[jester]

the more good looking the flirt the more likely it is that somebody will punch their nose.

I hope that isn't what happened to you evan

[firegirl]

[quote]Originally posted by Evan Young:
<strong>

I make most of my money by flirting with girls in my audience. Ask any of the Boulder performers, it's my strongest asset. Now what if I told you that my nose is bleeding as I type this?</strong><hr></blockquote>

...ha, ha, ha... what if i told you that i make most of my money in my show by mocking and humiliating men (which they consider flirting)... and, that they end up following me around like little puppy dogs??? you ninnies! they're only BOOBIES for cryin' out loud...

[before anyone decides to go off on me today - for denegrating the male species or for saying the word "boobies" please realize that this post is made in a typical sardonic fashion... f*ck... i hate having to post a disclaimer... blargh.]

tee-hee and tra-la-la

[jester]

While Firegirl is obviously comfortable and in full control of her sexuality I really believe that most people in the sex industry (not strippers - that's show biz) are not. The sex industry exploits people who need money for whatever reason.

I don't think anybody who does what it takes to get money home to the family need feel degraded in anyway. However, anybody who is willing to exploit the needy for their own sexual gratification has a lot to be ashamed of.

Arguements for legalising prostitution are normally all about improving the working conditions for sex workers and protecting them. They don't do anything about the problems that lead to people becoming prostitutes.

There are two major myths out there. One is that people who use prostitutes do so because they can't get laid and the other is that prostitutes do it because they enjoy having sex.

Most people who use prostitutes can get laid very easily but prefer to pay for it for many various reasons, a lot of which are quite sickening.

Most prostitutes probably do enjoy sex, but not with the ugly strange men that are paying them for it.

Prostitution is not normally something that the prostitute controls or profits from. Most of the money goes to middle men, (agents, pimps, landlords etc)and most prostitutes in the world are co-erced into the game in the first place.

There may well be many women out there who do very nicely for themselves out of prostitution but they are sadly a minority.

There is a brilliant book called "Working" by Dolores Keane (amongst many others which are frankly dull) which has a very sympathetic view of prostitution yet even though Dolores is an advocate she does reveal a lot about the true nature and problems associated with it.

There are also many websites dedicated to helping sex workers.

No prostitute is going to tell you that she is being exploited and that she dislikes her job - she needs your custom.

As for pornography- don't get me started. Andrea Dworkin has written some extremely feministic stuff on the subject. There is loads out there.

All I know is that prostitution is becoming more and more acceptable an in a few years students will be actively encouraged to participate in the industry to pay their way through college. They will enjoy mediocre wages as big business and marketing men and suits take all the spoils from brothel chains such as "Girl U Like" "Bugger King" "Kentucky Fried Pussy" "Boys R Us" etc etc.

I personally don't want my children to be sex workers, and if it isn't good enough for my children, it isn't good enough for anybodies children. We are all somebodies children. Maybe I am misguided.

I used to do a stand up comedy routine about prostitution, but the more I learn about it the less funny I find it so I no longer do it. There is no shame in wanting or desiring sex. No shame in masterbation. Lots of shame in other people suffering so you can satisfy your needs at their expense. A good wank is far more worthwhile.

Jonathan the Jester

[firegirl]

...well, jonathan i really think you're among a noble few of men... which i applaude - really that's with absolutly no sarcasm whatsoever.

however - (being a proud feminist in control of my body - secure in my sexuality and it's place/purpose in our society) i *REITERATE* that the entire sex industry (stripping, porn, prostitution and any other realm which i do not know of...) is that it is:

SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

period. if there was no market for it there would be no such industry. so - my real opinion is that where as i feel that sex shouldn't be a product which paid for, that as long as there are people out there who are willing to do so there will continue to be illegal prostitution and the other trappings of a "sex industry." so - what are the choices? either continue to allow it to go unregulated - where prices are negotiable, conditions are horrid at worst and eh at best - where assult, rape and transmission of disease is rampant amongst the participants... or, legalize (or, at least decriminalize it) and regulate the FUCK out of it. (no pun intended.) because, no matter what you do and how you do it you're never going eliminate the oldest profession in the world... really. not as long as someone somewhere is able and willing to pay for it...

frankly, i feel the same about the enitre drug issue too... but, i won't start on that.

i mean this as no disrespect - as i admire and mostly agree with what you are saying - but, i really, really believe that it comes down to the plauge of capitalistic mores in our modern society... supply and demand, dude. really.

cheers

[Stretch]

[quote] i really, really believe that it comes down to the plauge of capitalistic mores in our modern society... supply and demand, dude. really. <hr></blockquote>

instead of "from each according to their ability and to each according to their need" ???

[Greedybogle]

[quote]Originally posted by firegirl:
[QB...](being a proud feminist in control of my body - secure in my sexuality and it's place/purpose in our society) i *REITERATE* that the entire sex industry (stripping, porn, prostitution and any other realm which i do not know of...) is that it is:

SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

...i really, really believe that it comes down to the plauge of capitalistic mores in our modern society... supply and demand, dude. really.

cheers[/QB]<hr></blockquote>


Of course, by the laws of supply and demand, if the 'supply' (in this case, the number of prostitutes willing to provide this particular service) is reduced by ending the social conditions that lead women to become prostitutes (as I believe Johnathan is suggesting), and demand stays constant (and unless the Patriot act here in the states is extended to the legal siezure without a warrant of a man's genitals, I suppose it will), laws of economics dictate that the price of these services will go up. Money, of course, translates very easily into power (after all, this is what the thread is about, in part - rich men taking advantage of poor women), and at that point conditions improve for the prostitute of their own accord.

But then, I appreciate the thinking of Karl Marx.

The world has many problems...I wish I knew how to fix them.

[firegirl]

[quote]Originally posted by Stretch:
<strong>

instead of "from each according to their ability and to each according to their need" ???</strong><hr></blockquote>

i'm not saying i like that, bill -- but, it is the way the world works... really.

sad - but, true.