When is rains, it pours

[StarPixy]

Go Crescent!!! You're getting started, too, huh?
I'm so excited cuz I got a gig, too. It's for charity, so I won't be getting money either, but at least it's exposure! I'll be doing my Merry Piper character for a local flea market/benefit/picnic thing.Plus, I got in touch with an old friend who coordinates fashion shows and special events,and she might get me some gigs as a belly dancer! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[Crescent]

Congrats [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Thankies for the nice comments, and also than you for being the only person besides me who has signed my guestbook!!

*shakes fist at other people and points to link in siggie* [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

[Peter]

[quote]Originally posted by StarPixy:
<strong>...
I'm so excited cuz I got a gig, too. It's for charity, so I won't be getting money either, but at least it's exposure..</strong><hr></blockquote>

StarPixie. Anytime you do a "free" show you are hurting not only yourself, but all of us.

The people that put on these charity events know that there is truth to the saying "anything that is free is worth what you pay for it." By doing the freebie you are saying "I am not really worth any money."
and "I am not really a professional entertainer." And you're right. If you do not get paid you are an amateur not a professional.

Ask for the money and you will get it.

Peter

[em]

yeah but every now and again we, as performers, do charity gigs for free, because it is a charity. However its the gigs that are business based or funded or whatever that we get paid for, justifying the occasional favour to the community...its undercutting other acts fees to get the gig that is the crime i reckon!

[herbie treehead]

I do charity gigs all the time.

I walk out on to the street do a show and people stare, feel sorry for me, then walk away without paying, thus having the show for free.

Don't get me wrong I dont do shows for my art, I do them because I cant stay in the house for more than three days watching tv, I need to get out and shout at people for a little while.

It's charitable therapy.

[Steven Ragatz]

Crescent and StarPixy,

Don't worry about doing free shows. If you are comfortable with the situation, then that is what matters. Remember that there are lots of reasons to want to do a gig, and although money is one of them, it isn't the only one. Of course your time and creative energy as an artist are worth being properly compensated, but your soul as a performer shouldn't care. A show is a show, and if the spirit moves you, then by all means, take it and enjoy yourself. Others who feel threatened by those who are willing to work for free probably don't have anything worth paying for anyway...

Since you want to perform, and keep performing, eventually you will have to be aggressive about making some money while doing it. Don't sell yourself short with an undervalued self-image. Part of the "performing thing" can also include putting on an act during contract negotiations! Perceived value is what we sell, so if you want the client to think that you are good, then ask them for a "good" price. When you get it, all you have to do is keep the act clean and professional and you're on your way!

Best of luck. (Merde - and break a leg!)

Steven Ragatz

[Peter Voice]

Go Star Pixy girl,
but, wow, you've really gotta wonder about some-one who doesn't think it's worth doing a charity gig.

I can get $450 an hour for some of my stuff (mind you not often enough) but have just put over 1000 hrs work into a project for a charity, Taxi Trix seems to have contributed 100's of hours, the lepidopterous one, Lynnsky, Nick, and others here, did free stuff for the project(thru p.net see http://www.chalkcircle.com.au/flyingpig/index.htm) and they don't even know where I live.

Everybody does free stuff and young or beginning performers should take any trustworthy opportunity that they're into.
Have fun and you'll be good.

It is, though, important to fully appreciating that your show IS worth money, you can invoice the client for a reasonable rate then donate it back, thereby establishing the value of your work.

It is tax deductable and this is a point worth noting.

It can be really embarrassing if tax office finally twigs to what you've really been earning (esp. if you've been doing it for 18 years). Although I found they will baulk at a $450,000 deduction, and without receipts won't accept $450 an hour for for Robert, Karl et al's services, you CAN negotiate a deal. Two more good ideas and a couple of years and I should be off rhe hook. Believe me, these gigs might save your arse one day.

It's got to start somewhere.

Break a leg! [img]wink.gif[/img]

[ 11-03-2002: Message edited by: Peter Voice ]</p>

[Peter]

[quote]Originally posted by Peter Voice:
<strong>Go Star Pixy girl,
but, wow, you've really gotta wonder about some-one who doesn't think it's worth doing a charity gig.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Peter, I responded in another post but I will repeat it here. We as entertainers get used by the "charities." If there is an organization there is a budget, if there is a budget, there is money. If there is money, they can pay.

Ask the charity if they pay the electricians that set up the show, if yes, they can pay me. If the charity pays someone else, why should I as an entertainer and a draw to the event do things for free?

Remember the "charity" that in the U.S. was featured on 60 Minutes for raising $250 MILLION after the 9/11 attack, but only disbursed $100 million. The rest was for "administration and reserve for any other events." This same organization's Southern California office featured an ad when a woman's house burned down. They had refused to help the woman but used her picture. The head of the office is still in her position at a salary of $1,000,000 a year. That's right that is $1 MILLION a year salary for the head of ONE OFFICE.

If they can afford that kind of "administrative" expenses they can pay me my fee of a heck of a lot less.

Peter

[Rev]

Another busker gave me what I think is the best advice for dealing with charities. Ask for whatever you get for a show, and then donate it back. He said he even puts it into his contracts. That way he gets the exposure, the tax deduction, and feels good about helping a worthy cause.

Just a thought.

[Stretch]

There is no net tax dedution in this example. (USA) Just a net tax INCREASE. First, most people in the US take the standard deduction. Second, your charitable giving has to exceed I think it is 2% of your gross for you to get any deduction, third, you STILL have to pay your near 15% Social (in)Security tax, FICA, medicare, etc. taxes on your income.

Better to turn the charitable deduction into a business deduction by buying some advertising in the event program. A business deduction lowers your net income, so you pay less tax. A charitable deduction comes AFTER you pay the FICA and other taxes.

So if you wanted to incure the bookkeeping costs you could take the money and then buy an ad. That should be a net wash. Ask your accountant. I am NOT an accountant, But I have been self employed for well over 20 years and have gone through two IRS audits. :&gt;( They are NOT fun.

Personaly, if a charity calls me I prefer to charge. Or I may just show up at an event unexpectedly and start performing for free. Or stilt walk a couple of marathons and raise over $10,000 in donations in the process. In that case the Charity sends me to exotic locations (Dublin ;&gt [img]wink.gif[/img] ) for the marathon. Read all about it at: http://Stiltwalker.com/marathon.htm


Take care and fluffy hats to you all!

Bill "Stretch" Coleman

http://Stiltwalker.com/

[Lynneski]

Let's take this as a two-parter, shall we?

The answer to the question "Should one do a gig for nothing?" may very well differ depending on one's experience.

In the case of Crescent and StarPixy, or other emerging artists, the need may well be greater for performing credits to establish credibility and a reputation, than the need for cash. Charitable and other non-fee gigs are indeed a viable way of gathering enough momentum to break into bigger and better gigs. Just make sure you get something for your efforts - glowing letters of recommendation from the event producer or charitable board, billing in the program or other print material, copies of print or broadcast media exposure, or even an opportunity to shoot video or stills of your performance using your own resources (heck of a sight better to have shots in front of a real audience than in your back yard). If you're qualifying the gig by getting this in return, then you're really not working for nothing.

Others with a wealth of performing experience may obviously choose to answer the question differently. Your reasons, Peter, for refusing a non-fee gig are vastly different than are Peter's for opting in. Each decision is based on your own personal circumstances and criteria, and is made for each specific gig.

One can no more make the rule "never do a gig for no fees" than one can say "always do no-fee gigs". There are times when it is right to make a stand and refuse to do a given gig that dishonours the art and the artist by not paying. But there needs to be room for altruism, and for other motivations than cash, on occasion.

And I think it's a self-limiting thing. No-fee gigs will be limited to presenting emerging artists and to guesting the occasional highly motivated experienced artist. Gigs that want to present more experienced (and presumably "better" artists) need to offer fees.

[em]

fees or chocolate then.

[em]

or even chocolate cheques.
oh, sorry, i have had on HELL of a day...