Performers and Photos

[Peter Voice]

In "Learning to Listen" the subject of photographs came up. LDR suggested that he might be one of the world's most photographed people and I'd have to agree.
We, "Chalk Circle", as pavement artists, also have a claim as one of the most photographed acts around. Our work hangs around for months after we go and people take snaps by the thousand. (if you don't know what we do check out http://www.chalkcircle.com.au/ )
The thing that always astounds me is that the audience will happily pay Kodak, Agfa or some other film company several dollars to take home a couple of bad reproductions of our work but will baulk at putting something in our hat. It gives me the shits, after all it's our work.

I'm pretty keen on people's views on this.

As a non sequitur, it really worries me that that might be the best photo chance can find for his signature on p.net but then again who am I to judge.

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Peter Voice ]</p>

[Stretch]

When I remember to ask, which isn't often, I ask:

"Would you like to contribute to my College Fund? . . . I don't know which one I'm going to buy, but every bit helps!"

Walking tall, or standing tall for photos!
Bill "Stretch' Coleman

OH JUST GO TO http://Stiltwalker.com/
to see a few photos!

[LUCKY DIAMOND RICH]

For me ,it is all about wether you are doing it just for the Money ,OR!

I personally like that when i seperate myself from the Money thing with people asking for the photo,I get so much more than any Money could give me!

I love LIFE and what is on offer if you are open to it!

LDR

[Peter Voice]

It's not really about money, more about credit.
We know that we are taking our stuff out on to the street and leaving it there. Chalk Circle doesn't work on paper or canvas and we always leave our work in the hands of the public. We understand that we are in the public arena etc and some of our stuff takes weeks to do. We choose this. We also have an acute and growing understanding of copyright laws (Aust. anyway).
We don't and never have begrudged the photos. Our situation is different from LDR's though, they only photograph our work, not us. It must surely test LDR's patience but there are quite a few other problems related to photos and performers.
Our work keeps cropping up in all sorts of publications and sometimes the photographer has got a considerable fee. If Martin or any other charactor act creates a beautiful scene, why does the photographer end up with the credit and copyright? Surely, after investing so much time and money in his image, LDR owns it. The same for El Gleno Grande or Shirley Sunflower. We go away from a lot of festivals knowing the film companies made more than we did even though the crowd watched us hand-make the picture.

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Peter Voice ]</p>

[Peter G]

Peter -
Have you ever noticed how on some websites, especially those that offer visual images ( often including naked people) they sometimes imprint the image with their name or logo? What about doing the same thing with your art. I know it may seem very very wrong, but done with some humor and grace it could be very effective. You could incorporate it into a piece of sky, or within the folds of a piece of cloth, etc. A little like Hirshfield including his niece's name in all of his illustrations (do you know about this or is it an NYC/USA thing?).

That way no matter who photographed your work, your name would be front and center. What about making it your website so people would know exactly how to find you.

I know for a while Jim would wear his SMIRK.COM shirts during his show and some of us currently display our domains at our shows. It often results in people emailing us with kind words, if not job offers.

Good luck

Peter Gross - www.funnymagic.com (see how easy it is)

[HiveQueen]

Write

(c) 2002 The Chalk Circle All Rights Reserved For Reproduction and Publication Permissions, Contact (email or phone here).

along the edge of each drawing, or somewhere legible but not too obnoxious. It may not occur to many that your artwork is not exactly public domain, and even if it does, they may not know how to track you down.

When you see your work published somewhere, contact the publisher and photographer, let them know your work was used without permission or compensation, and send an invoice. If it's a magazine or paper, request that they run a correction in the next edition, crediting you for the artwork.

Or, get a book deal with a huge huge mega book publisher... they WILL hunt down and sue anyone else who publishes your stuff without permission from them. Of course, they'll probably screw you as well.... (why yes, I am cynical, thanks for asking!)

-c

[LUCKY DIAMOND RICH]

Seaking of Copyright Peter,
I heard that Jona Lummo in NZ,who plays for the All Blacks!

His manager has Copyrighted him and his image ,and his name,so that when ever anyone trys to use it in anyway shape or form!

He gets something out of it!

I heard this off Martin Ewan,and i found this very interesting!

As i am a Gallery of art of which i am also the Curator of the art that i collected and own!

Surely I am able to have some sort of copyright on this!

I am very interested in what the galleries of the world have in place to protect them and the art they own or have in there galleries!

What thought's do people have on this and info on copyright!

LDR

Ps- is there not a WARNING in every camera or video camera,that says something about copyright or permision to ask or something in the manual that comes with it?

[Peter Voice]

LDR, I'm quite sure, considering the circumstances, that you should be able to copyright your image. There is no doubt that you are the designer of yourself as an image. I suggest you have a talk to a copyright lawyer. If you cannot find a good one give me a call next time you're in Melb.. I can put you onto a good one ("good lawyer" Is that an oxymoron?) here.
On the issue of Galleries and their art. No gallery or collector owns copyright on any of the works they own. Copyright always belongs with the artist or their heirs. An artist can actually sue a gallery for loss of C.V. and breach of copyright if a work is damaged, even though the gallery or even a private collector legally owns the painting. In other words, while some-one can purchase, own and sell the actual painting, sculpture, whatever, the image always belongs to the artist. This is also true with photographs, the photographer always owns copyright even though some-one else may purchase exclusive rights to the picture.
It becomes more complicated when it is a photograph of a piece of Art. In the ideal commercial circumstance, Copyright is shared and right only sold or given on mutually acceptable terms. Unfortunately this can be further complicated by the issue of being "in the Public Arena". The Public Arena is supposed to be just that, the Public, day-trippers, tourists and other happy snappers but is increasingly used by professional and commercial photographers to evade the issue. Press photographers are yet a different issue (if it or you are in the public arena and are defined as news, it becomes "the public's right to know").

For commercial purposes Tiger Woods, Elle MacPherson, Jackie Chan and thousands of models, actors, sportspeople and others who have a definable image, have copyright over that image. For most of these people it is controlled through their management and of course they make a fortune flogging their image. I hope that you did well selling your image for the recent Kodak advertisements.
Perhaps it would be worth the effort of visiting good modelling agencies in London, Auckland and other of your favorite cities. If they start making money out of selling your image for you (which implies you too are making money), they will be very protective of their asset.
Good luck with it and let us know how you inquiries go.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: Peter Voice ]</p>

[LUCKY DIAMOND RICH]

Peter,
thanks for your words!

LDR

[LUCKY DIAMOND RICH]

I just went to the Rome tattoo convention,and I made a commitment with myself to give any one that asked for a Photo,a Photo!
In fact give them the best photo they have ever had!

This what happened!

I had so much more energy left at the end of the 3 days of the convention and I had alot of positive responses,and touched peoples lives!

This I feel is what it is all about,I think!
Well for me any way!

I love life and what it presents to me,always!
Esspically through clear eyes!

LDR