War, baby,,,WAR!!

[le pire]

Thanks for the fact checking Stephon; and those are just the assets that they disclosed...


é t i e n n e

[Danny Hustle]

1. I never said you agreed with him.
2. I am not a non Catholic. Get your facts straight.
3. The church has more money than anyother organization in the world.
4. number three is a PROVEN fact. EVEN THE CHURCH ADMITS IT!!!!!!!! Do a google search and see for yourself.

Here is just one page, there are many more. And god forbid you should go to the library and do any real research.

This is from: http://www.georgetown.edu/centers/wo...ons/p-arch.htm

<strong>"Chapter 5: Financial Administration
Any diocese can give to the People of God only what the People of God can pay for. Msgr. Benjamin G. Hawkes.

While money isn't everything, it's probably better than holy pictures for paying people's salaries. Archbishop Edward T. O'Meara.

Without financial resources, the church, like any other organization, cannot do very much. Money buys food, clothing, shelter, and office supplies. It pays salaries, rent, telephone, and energy bills. Money cannot buy everything, especially the supernatural goals the church holds dear. But efficient and effective use of financial resources make the achievement of these goals a possibility.

Every archdiocese is a multimillion dollar operation. The smallest archdiocese, Anchorage, has a budget of $1.5 million for its central offices. The revenues of the New York archdiocese, including parishes, exceeded $264 million in fiscal year 1983. The endowment and deposit and loan funds of the archdiocese totaled more than $172 million. The plant facilities, evaluated at cost, were more than $811 million. Across the Hudson River in the poorer archdiocese of Newark the figures are still big. At replacement value, the 250 parishes plus schools are evaluated at over $1 billion. The annual operating budget is close to $100 million with 10,000 employees…." </strong>[/quote]

5. I am not bashing or critisizing the church I am stating a simple fact. I don't think it is bad that the church has money.
6. I have no oil barons. Get your head out of your ass and stop blaming me personally for the worlds problems.
7. I attend church regularly
8. Think about it, the Catholic church has been doing business for over 1000 years, by sheer existance in 1000 years it should have collected, and invested, more money than any other organization on the planet. This is common sense. Microsoft has only been in existance since the late 70's and they have billions. And they only sell software. The Catholic churh has been in existance over 1000 years and they sell life everlasting.

I don't know about you but I'd pay a lot more for life everlasting than I would for Windows XP. But hey, that's just me.

You are refusing to see the big picture. You say it is not rich based on what? Oh yes, your observation of one poor parish. Great, that makes a lot of sense. Brilliant argument. Do just a little research and you will see the light.

Also do not forget the rich (And I mean very rich) Catholics that die and leave all of their holdings to the church, plus churches pay no taxes, plus they own their own country.

I'm sorry to be the one to break the news to you. As far as, "Any real power" goes I never said it had any and I don't know if it does. I said it had money, and it does, more than anyone else.

Best,

Dan-

[QUOTE]Originally posted by le pire:
[qb]Dan,


I NEVER said I agreed with that stupid priest from Liverpoole.
This is something you non-catholics don't seem to understand: we don't blindly follow the mumblings of a senile polish guy in italy just because he's got the title of Pope. He's just there to give the organization some structure and tell us things like: statues are OK, we like the virgin mary, birth control is bad. We also can make up our own minds when it comes to the priest and his sermons, too.

Second, when people say the catholic church is richer than multinational corporations I say this:

Bullshit. You're just beating a VERY dead horse and saying "well euuhhh, everybody knows it's true." The catholic church no longer has any real power and is simply trying to hold on to what little is left. The Pope's palace's in France were seized by the government back in the 18th century and then what was left was taken after World War II in retribution for Italy going facist. The American catholic church has a massive priest shortage and is actually considering ordaining women. I worked in a church as a teenager, and I can tell you that what $$$ come in from the collection plate is enough to keep the parish running and do some humanitary projects, but it isn't much.

Besides, the church does far more good than harm. At least mine does. Do you go to church ever Sunday? The people who are so quick to condemn the church are most often the ones who have no part in it. Personally, I think criticism, should work the way comedy does: i.e. you have to understand it first. The performer who flails around on a unicycle in his act has spent years learning how to ride it perfectly.

And it isn't the Catholic church who's causing this crap in the middle east - that's your big money oil barrons.


é t i e n n e

[ 02-09-2002: Message edited by: Danny Hustle ]

[ 02-09-2002: Message edited by: Danny Hustle ]</p>

[martin ewen]

' I am not a non catholic'
Wow thats a double negitive which is, as we all know, a tricky positive. (read 'I am a catholic.')
Is the other protaganist in this little hump catholic too?
Are we having a liberal catholisism contest.
Oh goody, who gets to pick up the folk guitar first.
So you're catholic by admission, you attend church regularily and you argue that by far your organisation is the richest on the planet.
great to be on the winning team isn't it?
Or am I missing something, .
Did you mean anti-catholic?
whatever.
Its a spiffing subject.

[Danny Hustle]

Hi Martin,

I knew you would chime in [img]smile.gif[/img]

Somedays the double negative can work for you. I should have put non catholic in quotes, but what the hell.

I simply said the Catholic church has a shit load of money and the people I knew that died on 9/11 were not chasing a buck but making a living.

This caused le piere to accuse me of having oil barons. Which of course is silly. If I had oil barons I surely wouldn't be spending my time arguing with peasants like us. I'd be home counting my oil baron money with many beautiful women of questionable moral reputation. I would also convert to another religon unless I was friends with the Kennedy's. Then I would develop an Nantucket lockjaw and summer in Hianus (or however you spell it **wink**)

I will not be singing kumbia anytime soon and you should all be thankful.

What I am saying,

1. I am a catholic
2. the catholic church has more money than anyone
3. who do YOU think should have more money than GOD! (This is said while twisting my moustach with one eyebrow arched)
4. I attend church regularly
5. I think the catholic church is seriously f*cked up, but I am used to f8cked up things after all I live in America with MY oil barons.
6. GOOOooooo TEAM!

[quote]Originally posted by martin ewen:
<strong>' I am not a non catholic'
Wow thats a double negitive which is, as we all know, a tricky positive. (read 'I am a catholic.')
Is the other protaganist in this little hump catholic too?
Are we having a liberal catholisism contest.
Oh goody, who gets to pick up the folk guitar first.
So you're catholic by admission, you attend church regularily and you argue that by far your organisation is the richest on the planet.
great to be on the winning team isn't it?
Or am I missing something, .
Did you mean anti-catholic?
whatever.
Its a spiffing subject.</strong><hr></blockquote>

[jonnyflash]

Let me begin by stating that the establishment church has absolutely nothing in common with the school of Liberation Theology as practiced by Romero, and that I see them as two completely different animals.

My own research has revealed that almost every church in Vancouver receives $30,000 Canadian dollars mimimum per year from the provincial and federal governments.
The church with it's HQ in the Vatican has been proven the richest entity in the world.As for most powerful?...
Along with the lame once-was remnants of the monarchist regimes(unfortunately still reproducing),
some lame-ass has-been remnants of the theocratic regimes still cling to life.Are they rich? Yes. Do they have political power? Not in and of themselves, I'd say. I see them more as political managers of sorts, stampeding their flocks to this or that political party each election.Of course, the ability to do so means that they are always considered important and valuble by the real decisionmakers. They are playing McCoy to the financiers' Captain Kirk.
For the record, this writer spent 5 years in private Christian school
and attended multiple hundreds of sermons.
Huzza!

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by le pire:
[QB]Go ahead and rant against the church for being hypocritical, manipulative, pedeofiling old men etc etc etc, "

OK!

In Boston a Catholic Priest
On little boy's butts likes to feast
He spreads god and light
Holds 'em down if they fight
Would the church tell him "bad boy!" at least?

Quite far from it, they covered it up
Moved him on to new litters of pups
With no birth control pill
There's more grist for the mill
And more lads to teach "Hey, bottom's up!"

So your weekly donation's well spent.
Instead of more food clothes or rent
Lawyers fees will be paid
For this sleeze to get laid.
(Thanks for such a great chance to just vent.)

[Prof Willie B]

Hey guys, I thought this was about war. I can understand the segue into religion because they seem to go hand in hand but I want to go back to the war thing.

What has me puzzled is Dubya's rants about "The Elvis Axle".

So the Koreans had something to do with it, big deal, they make half the parts in half the world's cars. The only involvement Iran or Iraq could have had is some of their oil (swapped for arms) might have been in it.
I know them "home-town, good old boys" take their Elvis seriously but surely George can take this issue up with the local Automotive Chamber of Commerce, rather than the UN.

The much misunderstood and maligned "Elvis' Axle" is not a world threat, simply a piece of junk in the back of "Billy Bob's Body Shop" at 22 Peach Tree Drive, Memphis.

I know, my big brother is a motor mechanic.

[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: Prof Willie B ]</p>

[jonnyflash]

My Theory:
1. The real problem is that markets must continually expand,
the rate of profit for Capital must continually increase.In a finite world.

2. The above forces compel US leaders to make their currency a continental currency, ie "dollarizing" the entire continent.They must do this soon in order to compete with Germany's Euro, which has already been made the currency in lotsa countries on THeir continent.

3.it's a (many fronted) battle between the leaders of the industrialized nations for
the land, labour and resourced of the unindustrialized world.

For the above reasons, I see a future of continental warfare where imperialists of the more developed continents will have huge wars over who gets to extract wealth from different areas of the world.
This will require the end of civil liberties as we have known them
within the imperialist states, and an increase in the number of internal wars and government repression in the unindustrialized world.

[martin ewen]

 This ones doing the rounds
I think its funny
In Speech, Bush Calls Iraq, Iran and North Korea 'Axis of Evil" -- N.Y.Times, 1/30/02
&gt;
Follow-up story:

     ANGERED BY SNUBBING, LIBYA, CHINA SYRIA FORM AXIS OF JUST AS EVIL.
Cuba, Sudan, Serbia Form Axis of Somewhat Evil; Other Nations Start Own Clubs
&gt;
    Beijing (SatireWire.com): Bitter after being snubbed for membership in the "Axis of Evil," Libya, China, and Syria today announced they had formed the "Axis of Just as Evil," which they said would be way eviler than that stupid Iran-Iraq-North Korea axis President Bush warned of his State of the Union address.
&gt;
    Axis of Evil members, however, immediately dismissed the new axis as having a dumb name, just for starters.  "Right. They are Just as Evil... in their dreams!" declared North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il. "Everybody knows we're the best evils... best at being evil... we're the best."
&gt;
     Diplomats from Syria denied they were jealous over being excluded,although they conceded they did ask if they could join the Axis of Evil.
&gt;
    "They told us it was full," said Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
&gt;
    "An Axis can't have more than three countries," explained Iraqi
President Saddam Hussein.  "This is not my rule, it's tradition.  In World War II you had Germany, Italy, and Japan in the Axis.  So you can only have three.  And a secret handshake.  Ours is wicked cool."
&gt;
THE AXIS PANDEMIC
&gt;
     International reaction to Bush's Axis of Evil declaration was swift, as within minutes, France surrendered.
&gt;
     Elsewhere, peer-conscious nations rushed to gain triumvirate status in what became a game of geopolitical chairs.  Cuba, Sudan, and Serbia said they had formed the Axis of Somewhat Evil, forcing Somalia to join with Uganda and Myanmar in the Axis of Occasionally Evil, while Bulgaria, Indonesia, and Russia established the Axis of Not So Much Evil Really As Just Generally Disagreeable.
&gt;
    With the criteria suddenly expanded and all the desirable clubs filling up, Sierra Leone, El Salvador, and Rwanda applied to be called the Axis of Countries That Aren't the Worst But Certainly Won't Be Asked to Host the Olympics; Canada, Mexico, and Australia formed the Axis of Nations That Are Actually Quite Nice But Secretly Have Nasty Thoughts About America; while
Spain, Scotland, and New Zealand established the Axis of Countries That Should Be Allowed to Ask Sheep to Wear Lipstick.
     "That's not a threat, really, just something we like to do," said
&gt; Scottish Executive First Minister Jack McConnell.
&gt;
    While wondering if the other nations of the world weren't perhaps making fun of him, a cautious Bush granted approval for most axes, although he rejected the establishment of the Axis of Countries Whose Names End in
"Guay," accusing one of its members of filing a false application.
Officials from Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chadguay denied the charges.
&gt;
     Israel, meanwhile, insisted it didn't want to join any Axis, but
&gt; privately, world leaders said that's only because no one asked them.

[jonnyflash]

This is precious!

Spin of the Week
PR Watch, February 8, 2002
Not since the hysterical "This is your brain on drugs" ads have young people been so simultaneously perplexed and amused by the misguided efforts of grown-ups to get them to not do drugs. During the Super Bowl, the government reached uncharted levels of hypocrisy, launching an ad campaign that claimed your local drug dealer is in cahoots with terrorists like Osama bin Laden. Of course, the ads conveniently glossed over the U.S. government's historical role in the international drug trade. But the ads also seemed to forget some more recent history - that the War on Terror just installed into power some of the biggest heroin dealers on the planet, the Northern Alliance. For all the Taliban's myriad evils, they actually destroyed thousands of tons of Afghanistan's poppy crops. As GNN has reported, the return of the Northern Alliance may mean cheap smack for millions of patriotic youngsters:

Super Bowl Propaganda
In what appears to be the U.S. government's biggest single event advertising buy, the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy spent over $3.2 million for two 30-second ads aired during the Super Bowl.

[jonnyflash]

Excerpt from interview with ex-cop Micheal Rupert
for the rest, go to: http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter...gence/194.html

Historically, it is extremely well documented that Osama bin Laden is and was a creation of the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1980's when he joined with Mujahedeen Freedom fighters in Afghanistan. He worked with Gulbadin Hekmatyar who was running six heroin factories under CIA protection in Pakistan and Afghanistan. As recently as 1996, the U.S. government had secret agreements with the government of Sudan to allow him sanctuary there for the purposes of monitoring him. In 1997-1998 after the cruise missile attacks on the El Shifa pharmaceutical factory, which were absolute disasters for the U.S. because no weapons were made there. The U.S. intelligence community had ample ability to know and to track his movements. I have just learned that from 1998, Reuters is reporting, that a green light was given for covert operations against bin Laden and when you couple this with the fact that we know now, from European reports from Germany, France and Israel, that advance warning had been given to the U.S. government of an imminent attack, the current U.S. government position on this is really not sustainable.


So let me get this straight. Because you have been really clear in our past conversations about the murky world of intelligence communities and the whole business of war. And you have discussed the fact that there is always some group or faction that benefits directly from an armed conflict. But are you saying that, even in this case, with the horrific damage done not only to the financial center of New York and the United States, but also to the psychological well-being of the American population, that some faction of the U.S. government had foreknowledge of these attacks?


I absolutely believe, at this moment, that the United States government had foreknowledge of the attacks and allowed them to occur.
To read more..click
here