Mac or PC?

[Danny Hustle]

I came back to this thread today because I have changed my opinion, sort of.

To qualify again, by day I am a computer network engineer. I am not bragging, I am stating a fact. For some reason this makes some people go crazy when I say it. I don't know why, but there you have it.

I make most of my living working with computers it is what I do. I work for a software developer therefore am very familiar with almost all OS types and platforms.

I will admit, Most of my time is spent with PCs as most of our servers and workstations are PC based.

But we do have Macs. I even have a Mac SE still on my network and doing a very viable job. It is the oldest box in the joint and still runs like a top.

Anyway, this being said I bet you think I am going to suggest a PC, well it ain't so.

At least five times in the past month I have sent friends out to buy Macs. IMHO they are a sexier computer, far sexier. I love the freaking things. Yet I don't own one, interesting, non?

The plain and simple answer for this is a Mac is what a computer should be, again this is just my opinion. It isn't just a "user friendly" thing it is a "User Useful" issue.

Right out of the box a person who has never spent time if front of a computer can be editing old home videos for his grand kids. This isn't a pipe dream, It is a phone call I made last week.

"Hi Jimmy, how are you? It's Danny."

"Great Danny! This computer is fantastic!"

That's great Jimmy, I'll come over this weekend and show you how to hook your camera into it so you can get that tape made."

"Oh, I'm done with it."

"Huh?"

"Yeah I finished it a coupla' days ago."

"Oh."

"Yeah, but come over this weekend anyway, I burned you a CD with that old Hoagie Charmichal stuff you wanted."

"You did?"

"Oh yeah, this thing is great."

"Okay Jimmy."

If this were a PC it would have taken two weekends, five phone calls, 4 external software packages, and three six packs.

I still can't believe the guy did it, but I saw the tape this past weekend and it looked great. Not to mention the CD he gave me. OH! The guy even burned the video to CD in VCD format so he could keep a copy close and watch it on his DVD player.

I have always liked the Mac, but I never felt (personally)they were "better" until recently. Because there are still some things a PC still has all over a Mac, but to be honest, if I was to buy a new rig today, I wouldn't be getting a Dell, dude.

Just my 2 cents and those who disagree are entitled.

Best,

Dan-


P.S. Please do not confuse this post to mean I think one platform is better than the other in a nuts and bolts sort of way. I just found it interesting that when asked, a guy in my position would be suggesting Macs to his friends over PCs.

We could sit here all day quibble and quabble about how one does this better than that. I intellectually admit they are both fairly similar, and both sides have great arguments.

But when it comes down to what you'd go out and buy for yourself? That is another question all together. For me I'll be running OS10 before I'll run XP.

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: Danny Hustle ]</p>

[nick nickolas]

Hi all,
I've got to get a new laptop ( mine got nicked!)....
The mac v's pc mmmm? I've read all the stuff on this thread still am unsure, had a pc learnt on a pc....want to do video editing and creative web stuff mainly ....is mac that much better??...what software do I need??....
looking forward to hearing your advice...

nick

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

Nick,


The Mac Powerbook g4 is a rectangular mass of
titanium/ wires/ tiny lights/ bells/ whistles
rolled and baked flour/ plants
intricately threaded beads/ feathers/ bells
ground tusks/ ancient rock particles
about as long as frack's cloven penis
about as wide as the web around Lucky's bung

balanced upon a threadbare ponzi scheme called the US economy, and
marketed to perfection in the "think different" niche.

behind the keyboard of this seemingly necessary machine you may produce movies/ film shorts/ promo vids/ web sites/ p.net posts
or maybe just visit a porn site.


(If you're gonna do the posts, write something enjoyable.)

(If you're gonna make the promo vid, listen to MTV, do it in 4 minutes or LESS)

(If you're gonna go to the porn site, use an hanky.)

Anyway ...

If you can tease these keys into something approximating 3500 US worth of value and throw in the joy that can only come of excessive consumerism and manage to avoid having the new one nicked,

then pat yourself on the back.
you've got a g4
you're no longer normal.

[Kim]

I use a pc, and don't have too much experience with macs, but if I was buying again, I'd look at getting a mac.

The multimedia software is available for both, and works the same on each. I'm pretty sure the mac is a whole lot easier to use, but maybe more difficult to trouble shoot when there's a problem?

Macs have been better for multimedia work in the past, but as far as I can tell PCs have caught up, and now it's just a matter of deciding what flavour you prefer.

I imagine that if you don't know much about computers, or don't want to learn, then the mac is the way to go - user friendly.

So, I'm sounding very pro mac... but I still prefer the PC.
I'm not sure I can tell you why...just familiarity, I guess.

Nick, I know Fergus and Rowan have just bought an ibook, so they might be good to talk to.

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: kim ]</p>

[Butterfly Man]

Nickyboy,
As you know I'd set you up Mac wise whatever your needs ... but you gotta get a later model (ibook G3 or better) to do the things you mentioned... I have an old 5300 powerbook (Mac) that I can toss your way if you wanna make up your mind ... but it'll only show you how easy a ride it is ... it won't do all the editing stuff but it could help you decided which way to go
Moth Head

[Steven Ragatz]

Mine is not an entirely unbiased opinion: I hate both PCs and Macs (for different reasons.) I stick by my earlier post on this thread, and given your short wish list, and unless you have some other impetus to do otherwise, I would recommend a Mac.

Make sure that the model you are interested in has sufficient software to do the level of video editing that you wish to create. I do not know sophistication of the I-Movie software that ships with the I-Macs, so you should check into it to see if it will fulfil your needs.

I will offer some brief information about inline editing, that is, the process of taking raw digital footage into the computer, modifying it, and spewing it out the other end. If anyone else on the board has some more accurate information, feel free to contradict me:

If you want to make promotional tapes, then there will be additional hardware required (independent of the platform you choose) to get the digital video to tape. Although many graphic cards have TV out (S-video) ports, the graphics quality on these are probably not good enough for a promo tape. To get "broadcast quality" one must have dedicated hardware to convert the digital information to the analog signal that your VCR needs. A card to do the conversion could cost anywhere from a few hundred, to thousands depending on the fidelity.

Typically, you get the raw footage into the computer from your digital camera via a fire-wire port. These ports are standard on most desktop computers and digital video cameras these days. But, if you already have a camera, then you should make sure that it will be compatible with your new computer.

If you are wishing to take your video to the web, and you want to prepare it yourself, then there will be extra expense in a good compression codec to prepare the digital movie for the internet. Although one can post movies in their native format, few viewers will be willing to download movies that are more than a few Megs. Raw digital data straight from the camera can be hundreds of Megabytes for only a few short minutes of footage. That's why you need some sort of compression software. As far as I know, the current codec of choice for the web is still Sorenson (4?). This software works in conjunction with your editing software, so you will have to add another $500 USD for this addition. Check to make sure that it is compatible with your editing software. Now, there are other compression codecs available, but I am not familiar with any of the others, so that is something else to investigate.

If you are doing lots of movies, then you should probably look into something like Media Cleaner Pro. Another grand, but it has batch processing abilities that are invaluable for processing lots of footage.

As I have posted before, if you have only a handful of web videos to produce, it would be cheaper, and faster, to simply take them to a digital house and have someone else prep them. You can do all of the editing on your machine and simply supply them with the uncompressed source.

Another consideration for web video is whether or not wish to provide streaming. From the Mac side, Sorenson and Quicktime are probably your best combination. Quicktime Pro runs a few hundred. But remember all you Mac users out there, like it or not, PCs make up better than %90 of all desktops, and Quicktime is not standard issue on them like it is on Macs. The user will have to download the free software, and install it. It's a pain, but an expectable FOL none the less.

For serious inline editing, Apple's Final Cut Pro, or Adobe's Premier are very popular packages. They are fairly intense, and there is a steep learning curve, but they are very powerful. They don't run cheap, $1k and about $600 USD respectively.

So, if you want to do a few some video clips to the web, I would suggest getting a Mac that ships with I-Movie (or the equivalent), and a digital video camera. Upload your video, edit it, then take the raw footage to a digital house and have it prepped for web. If you are going to do allot of web video, then go with a high end Mac , and be prepared to have to add both software and hardware. Of course, once you are done, you can put out your shingle and web prep digital video for the rest of us! If you want to do inline editing to tape, then you are on your own and you had better have a big hat full 'o cash...

There are many Mac people on p-net, so I suspect that you could get some helpful support here.

Good luck, and let us all know how it goes.

Steve

PS. If you are going to spend lots of time working with video, you should consider getting two monitors. It is cheaper that one big one and typically provides more screen space to work. Your editing software will want you to have timeline windows, clip windows, and output windows all opened at once, so you will want that extra space to work.

[Jim]

Kim's right. You really can do video editing on both platforms. Right now, though, Final Cut Pro (Apple) for video editing is kicking the pants off anything PC oriented. It's a wicked program for the price.

You could almost comfortably do video editing on an iBook (under $1200-1800 US.) But a PowerBook ($2500-3500US) would make things WAY faster. Other than video editing, both types of Apple computers would feel virtually the same for basic browsing, email, writing, light Photoshopping, etc. If you plan on doing a LOT of video editing, go with a PowerBook, but if you only plan to pump out a promo tape for yourself once a year, an iBook should do fine.

I have no idea what a comparable PC would cost... probably a bit less, but then again, Apples have tons more sex appeal.

GET A FREAKIN' MAC.

Jim

[Jim]

Regarding Steven's Post...

An iBook ships with iMovie, which has everything you need to produce either web or high quality tape videos.

1. Get a digital video camera with Firewire ( Canon and Sony both have great cameras under $1000.)

2. Get an iBook ($1200-1800) (Ships with iMovie2 - Free)

3. Shoot video.

4. Plug Firewire camera into iBook.

5. iMovie automatically launches and you edit your movie with virtually NO learning curve. (It's the simplest and most fun Apple program I've ever used.) You even control your camera remotely with iMovie's controls. You don't have to touch your camera except to change tapes.

6. Save your iMovie and decide whether you want to put it on the web or have it duped at a tape copying house.

7. To put it on the web, Export as a Quicktime movie (This is the hardest step because you need to tweak settings to optimize your footage for compression. It takes a few tries, but even the pre-set settings look decent.) Upload completed, compressed movie to your web page.

8. To have your movie duped to tape, it's even easier... Re-connect your Firewire camera to your iBook and put in a blank DV tape. Select "Export to Tape" and iMovie will copy your completed project to the tape in your digital camera. You then take this "Master" copy to a tape duping house and pay $2-3 dollars a copy for VHS tapes. The tape duping house will thank you for having your master tape on DV. And you'll be happy because you shot digitally, edited digitally, exported to Digital tape with no generational loss of quality in the editing process.

To see what iMovie can do, I edited the movie below in a day and a half after plugging in my new computer for the first time. I had never used iMovie before and never edited anything digitally before. I did it myself completely with iMovie and my Mac, exported it to Quicktime and put it on my web site literally in under one weekend.

http://www.thejimshow.com/what/jimshow_modem.html - 3.4MB
http://www.thejimshow.com/what/jimshow_broadband.html - 10.8MB

And I don't even work for Apple. I should get some kind of endorsement deal.

[Danny Hustle]

[quote]Originally posted by Mr.Taxi Trix:
<strong>
balanced upon a threadbare ponzi scheme called the US economy,
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know Taxi, it's really not cool to compare the US Economy to what Charlie Ponzi did. When Ponzi bilked those people it was wrong. The US Government...er..well they...ahhh..

Crap.

Let's just forget I opened my mouth huh? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Best,

Dan-

(Great post BTW)

[Danny Hustle]

This is an interesting article that helps you make the jump in either direction..

http://www.cnet.com/software/0-429669-8-9723010-1.html

[Steven Ragatz]

Jim et al.

It did not occur to me that newer cameras would allow you to copy the digital information from the computer back to digital tape, but it seems obvious that this is in fact the case. I have never been directly involved in the video production side in our office, so by all means, listen to someone who has specific experience. Once the master is made, taking it from digital tape to VHS is trivial. There you go. This is assuming that the output quality of the editing software is sufficiently good for your tape.

Moral of the story: you probably won't go wrong either way, but the consensus leans towards Mac.

Steve

[Jim]

[quote]Originally posted by Steven Ragatz:
<strong>It did not occur to me that newer cameras would allow you to copy the digital information from the computer back to digital tape, but it seems obvious that this is in fact the case. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup. Firewire pretty much rocks. Thanks again to APPLE for inventing it.

You can produce a new promo tape at your kitchen table, completely digitally, with a DV camera ($600-700) and an iMac (the classic ones are around $700) for under $1500. And then you have the tools to make a new tape whenver it strikes your fancy to do so.

This was not possible three years ago.

It's a great time to be alive.
Jim

[LANCEALOT]

Crikey Danny, it only took you four months to reply to my post, rant as you usually do and then call me a Moron. And you even edited your reply! By the way, your photo is really beautiful.

Anyway, back to the topic. Since it's getting a little technical in here and as I'm a Mac Addict I thought I'd lighten things up a bit:

Windows XP is an obstacle course,
Microsoft Word is a trojan horse,
Internet Explorer crashes every day,
"Where do you want to go today?"
The PocketPC and XBox both crash,
Stupid and slow but still fun to smash,
DOS is just buggy, Windows as well,
If you're data get's lost then welcome to hell!
Intels get by with a half-assed design,
But Motorola processors really do fine,
Microsoft Works is anything but,
Even Notepad gives you a pain in your gut.
The Microsoft website is pretty much crap,
Watch out dumb user, your connection is tapped.
So really now guys, I would like to know,
How many more flaws will it take to show,
and to give the public a wake-up call,
in order to see they don't need PCs...
...at all."


<img src="graemlins/haha.gif" border="0" alt="[ha ha]" />

[Doctor Eric]

It's off topic, and in response to an older post, but it's funny...
[quote]Originally posted by Zoltan:
<strong>In the same way that if you're creating webpages, you should be using pure HTML....

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Zoltan, are you aware of what happens to your website when viewed full screen at 1400x1050? You should fix that, as it is less than "Adequate"

[Danny Hustle]

[quote]Originally posted by LANCEALOT:
<strong>Crikey Danny, it only took you four months to reply to my post, rant as you usually do and then call me a Moron. And you even edited your reply! By the way, your photo is really beautiful.


<img src="graemlins/haha.gif" border="0" alt="[ha ha]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, I'd say it was you on the rant. My original post actually agreed with most of your original post, but you saw my name and for some reason had to act like a brainless twat. That's your problem. I don't know you from a hole in the wall but some where in my sorted past I must have done something to offend you grievously. I don't know what else could cause you to act like such a nitwit. I'd apologize but I find you funny.

I'd also like to point out you called me stupid about 4 months before I called you a moron hmm... As for you mention of my picture, yeah, all this and I'm good lookin' too [img]wink.gif[/img]

You have a good one Lance and when you get your head to pop out of your ass let me buy you a beer.

No hard feelings ya' moron [img]smile.gif[/img]

Best,

Dan-

P.S. I edited this post too..

[ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Danny Hustle ]</p>