photagrapher

[Evan Young]

A photojournalism student did a project on me this last summer. "A day at work for evan young" type thing. He's a good photographer and got some good shots that would be good to put on my website. I asked him if I could buy the rights to the images and he proposed this:



First, you are totally welcome to any pic's for friends and family, no buying necessary._ It was way cool of you to let me tag along for a few days so giving you some images to share is the least I could do.

If you're thinking of pic's more for ads/portfolio/self-promotion (ie. making money), then I'd like to get something in return. Here's what I've done with some of the rock climbers I've shot: They sign model release so that I can sell the images commercially._ (I do work with a small stock photo agency)._ In return, they get all the photos they want for their own uses: copies for friends and family, self-promotion, web sites, ads and stuff like that._ The main thing is that they don't sell the image and anyone else besides the climber (for example, sponsors or employers) who wants to use it works through me._ This arrangement's kind of nice since cash is usually limited and this allows everyone to come out ahead, no cash involved._ Some people are uncomfortable with signing a release, in which case we can figure something else out.



what do you think? pro's/cons

[Doctor Eric]

I was about to say that this deal is fine, and mutually beneficial, until I noticed this part:

"The main thing is that they don't sell the image and anyone else besides the climber (for example, sponsors or employers) who wants to use it works through me."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what he means, but I'd have him get rid of that part COMPLETELY or no deal.

[scot]

He is not being too cool.

Sign the thing and use them if you want but you could become the subject of an ad campain without permission or any extra compensation, or don't sign the thing and if you see those pictures anywhere for any purpose, take action.

I don't like these stock photography things. I think they're bad for all artists involved -- including the souless designers using the photos. I won't sign any of this stuff. I'm guessing the photos aren't much better than satisfactory and I'm sure you can pay for better ones.

I've found that the rule is usually, you pay for good photos. You either take a whole bunch of cheap ones it takes away your time and money on a payment plan, then you finally get a few that are good, or you pay upfront for something good.

Scot

[Chance]

Evan, no contract is "standard". A contract will say what ever you want it to. So if you feel too constrained by the contract offered, feel free to modify his, or even create your own. (This applies to performance contracts as well.) Most importantly, no contract is binding until signed, and until that moment all options are in play.

[Evan Young]

well, the photos are good, they really are. they arn't studio promo shots, they are live action street show shots. he came out and photographed my shows for a week trying to get specific images he wanted for his project and he did a good job.

all in all, I figure it would be nice web site content and that's about it. it's not really somthing I want to shell out a bunch of cash for, but they would be nice to have and use.

[dave walbridge]

rules of thumb/ contracts

Regarding contracts:

Keep as many rights as you can.

Negociate prices for services (your or theirs) before the services occur.

The contract is always slanted in favor of the person who wrote it.

If a person balks at signing your contract, they are either unsure of their authority to do so {for their company} OR they are not wanting to get caught. Find out which

Get paid day of show.

If you MUST have a dressing room, soundboard, ten foot ceiling, Pringles - specify it in your rider. But think about MUST.

-D

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

Take the deal. Barter rocks.

[Doctor Eric]

Awash in a sea of confusion...

This got kind of lost in a torrent p-net babble, so I will reiterate.
The deal is great , it's mutually beneficial, no cash needs to trade hands, all in all a breeze. EXCEPT for the part I mentioned earlier.

"The main thing is that they don't sell the image and anyone else besides the climber (for example, sponsors or employers) who wants to use it works through me."

This is not only complete bullshit (in a way you are losing ownership of your own identity, and it's a soft strongarm maneuvre for more buisiness), but more importantly, it's going to turn into a big pain in the ass. Like so:

A year from now, you are booked for a festival and the promoters say "Alright Evan, do you have some good hi-res photos for our flier/brochure/program/website/etch-a-sketch/wallaby/whatever?"

What this guy's clause is asking you to do at this point is to tell these promoters "Yes, I have some great shots, but you will now have to negotiate with my photographer for the right to use them."

See? That's moronic. Tell him to take out that clause, and the deal is great.

About the stock photo thing, Scot's opinion is one side of the fence, and I understand it, my personal opinion is that if the photo's ever actually DO get used (which is about as likely as O.J. Simpson recieving a Nobel Peace Prize) all it means is that more people see YOU. That's not really all that bad.

[scot]

It sounds like a hassle all that terniery distrobution stuff. If you can use it for one thing, you'll want to use it for others too. That makes things easier.

Offer him some money if you really want one of the photos. Money only.

I ditto Eric's last paragraph in a way. I had someone ask to use my photos for stock and they were totally the wrong style for anything useful, plus the photographer was my friend so, I said yes. Look at what stock photos look like. They're used like clipart mostly. If you think the photos suck for that purpose, sign away.

My #1 solution, screw these photos. Get some other people who are passionate about pics to snap you. It will probably be easier.

[Pyromancer]

Dt. Eric, it's nice if other people see you indeed. But not in a commercial for say, Coca Cola, MacDonalds or any other big ass company that should have the money to pay you. I can tell tou from my own experience, it's not very nice to see yourself turned into a prostitute on the television screen, without getting anything in return. No way I want to see myself blowing a big flame in a Shell Nigeria campaign...

And as for the contract: the guy is a student. He uses you for a project. The least thing he can do is giving you some of those pictures, free for promotional use. Fair enough that you should not sell them commercially, but I don't see why your effort in helping him out, should be exploited commercially on his side either, in any way.

[Doctor Eric]

I'm still chuckling over the likelihood of Coca-Cola browsing through a discount stock photo site, stumbling across pictures of Evan's goofy ass doin' street shows and announcing "That's the face to launch a trillion cans!"

[Pyromancer]

How about Michael Jackson doing a cheap imitation of my show for a Pepsi commercial?

And what if it goes wrong?

[Doctor Eric]

Now THAT'S ego.

[Pyromancer]

Too big to carry on as hand luggage.

[Doctor Eric]

Damned if you do...

... and too fragile to check.