Agent fees.

**Jim** · Dec-23-2000, 11:59 AM

Great way to open this forum, Frisbee....

Personally, I like to give them a quote of the total I want to take home. If they can tack on a huge amount more and can get it from the client, good for them, I'm none-the-wiser. But I'm still getting the amount I asked for and was willing to work for.

Sometimes you can be right up front with agencies because they're the middleman. It's hard to ask a client directly, "What's your budget, What are you willing to pay?" But with an agent, I can be right up front about it. They usually have a sense of what the client has budgeted for entertainment.

Then you can work it out so you AND the agent benefit.

An agent may call and ask "What do you want to earn for this gig?" (knowing that the client has $2000 to spend.) If I say, $1000, the agent will say great, "$1000 to you, book it." Then they get $2000 from the client and give you $1000. However, I always ask right up front, "What is the client's budget?" If the agent is honest and says "$2000" then we can work out a mutually beneficial agreement, where I'd get $1600, and they get $400 (20%). Or even $1500, $500. That's more than I was going to quote originally, so I benefit, and the agent takes a slightly larger percentage because they were up-front and honest.

Every agency and market is different. But the bottom line is this: Only work for what you are willing to work for! If the agent makes a big profit on you, it's kind of slimy, but it doesn't matter if you're happy with the amount you quoted and were paid.

Also, be clear WAY in advance about what you want to TAKE HOME. I make it crystal clear that what I quote is what I expect to take home. If I say "$1000" I don't mean "$1000, minus commission" I mean "$1000." The agent can work out the rest.

Jim

**StrongEntertainment** · Dec-24-2000, 01:25 PM

I agree with what Jim had to offer. I just want to add some information. In many states there are laws that limit an entertainment agents fee to 20%. The way agents get around that is they call themselves producers and do what is called buy/sell. That means they negotiate their best buy price, then negotiate their best sell price. Now they are producing a themed event, they feel like they deserve more for their creativity.
Like Jim said always make sure that the price the agent quotes is after all commissions. You only have to get burned once on this one.

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Robert Strong
www.StrongEntertainment.com

**Chance** · Jan-02-2001, 07:21 AM

Just like Jim, I have learned to state very clearly what I intend to take home, commissions be-damned. In addition I also ask what the agent is charging the client, and I use this as a sign of how trustful/truthful/greedy the agent is. And I will definitely turn down work from an agent I don't feel I can trust 100%, regardless of what they are pitching at that moment.

------------------
Each man's given a bag of tools,
An hourglass,
A book of rules;

And each man's built,
'ere his hour's flown,
A stumbling block -
Or a stepping stone.

**Peter** · Jan-02-2001, 01:11 PM

Chance, query. You say that you will turn down a gig from an agent you do not trust. Is this because you have been burnt? I have my name into 2 agents now and have not yet worked with one. What should I be leary of?

Thanks
Peter

**Chance** · Jan-05-2001, 10:00 AM

No doubt there are many good and honest agents to be found, Peter. Look hard and try to find one that you truly feel you can build a relationship with, is my humble opinion. Ask LOTS of questions. Make sure they really like YOUR act, and appreciate your specific stylings (whatever that means - I think I heard Robert Nelson say it one day. Or maybe it was my dry cleaner... can't remember). And if you are looking for an easy way early on to determine their honesty, then ask them point-blank what they intend to charge the client. Any evasiveness at all on their part and I would be out the door. Just my .02

------------------
Each man's given a bag of tools,
An hourglass,
A book of rules;

And each man's built,
'ere his hour's flown,
A stumbling block -
Or a stepping stone.

[This message has been edited by Chance (edited 01-23-2001).]

**Andy** · Jan-05-2001, 10:12 AM

If your booked by an agent who takes a percentage, the industry standard is and has almost always been 10-15%. Some take 20% and that's really the MOST any agent should take. Find out first before taking the gig.

Other agencies do the flat fee and yes, it is possible that they can make 100% mark-up on the gig. If you are getting your asking price then what they make is of no consequence to you. If you develop a good relationship with that agency and find out what's really being charged you can start asking for a higher rate. Easy.

**Blake** · Jan-06-2001, 03:09 AM

Agents
Well I have had a really interesting agent experience.
The other week I went into an agents the biggest in town and found out what there needs were focusing on what they needed to be able to give me work.
The said saying yes and flexibility were the keys.
They also said they liked my stuff.
They also said that they charged anywhere from 50 to a 100 dollars on a gig worth 2-300 dollars.
"may sound like fifty percent" she said "but it costs us about 150 dollars to do a booking.
lots of good info.
Did i get any gigs yet
one.

It seems that for mainstream corporate work at least in Australia they want someone who can fill a suit or costume with minimal fuss and a passable character with no rehearsal.
I constantly ask myself if the money is really worth the half assed approach.
As a result i tend to go for the more festival type work. As I find the corporate stuff really draining because I am treated as audience fodder.
I even find busking more satisfying at times.
neway i digress.
thats my ten cents.
blake

**Chance** · Jan-23-2001, 07:14 AM

Andy, you said:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Other agencies do the flat fee and yes, it is possible that they can make 100% mark-up on the gig. If you are getting your asking price then what they make is of no consequence to you

I agree with you to a point, but the underlying 'truth' can make all the difference. Let me try to explain...

If some agents make 15%, and others are making 100%, it is not because of anything the performer does, but because of how the agent first acts. An 'honest' agent (for the sake of argument in this narrow context) will ask the client about their needs (first) and then about their budget (2nd). Then the agent will sort thru their files for the performer that best fits that profile - kind of like in the "Mission: Impossible" TV series: first the 'mission', then comes the 'performers'. And so long as they earn their average commission they are happy, as is everyone else involved.

Another kind of agent will take down the client's information, mentally focus on the 'budget' part, and then find an act which undercuts that price by the widest margin, therby leaving the agent with the biggest percentage possible after the smoke has cleared.

The first agent will not have any problem at all discussing every detail of the event with the performer involved; he realizes that it is not just his own reputation which is at stake with each contract. The second agent would rather lose a leg, half his teeth and all of his hair before divulging the same information; he doesn't worry about building relationships or reputations nearly as much as he does his own bank account.

So I return full circle to my earlier point: If an agent hesitates for even a second when I ask him straight up about his fee schedule to the client he wants me to entertain, he can look for someone else.

This is a great discussion, guys! Let's keep it going, and more just like it in other sections as well!

------------------
Each man's given a bag of tools,
An hourglass,
A book of rules;

And each man's built,
'ere his hour's flown,
A stumbling block -
Or a stepping stone.

**StrongEntertainment** · Jan-23-2001, 11:58 AM

Just to play devil's advocate for a cyber moment, how different is the agent (the one who will mark up the performer's rate 100% if he can) to the performer (who will double his price if he knows that the agent deals with high-end clients)?

I will start to answer my own question. There are situations when the client or agent won't even consider you as an option if you charge less than a $1,000 a show. Image (which includes your price structure) plays an important role in whether or not you get the job. Maybe the agent is exercising some market know how. In other words, you say your price is $500, the agent feels he will lose the job at that rate because it is too low, so he quotes $1,000, and gets the job. He probably deserves the mark-up because he knows the market. Therefore, we (performers) should spend a little more time understanding the market. However, there is the agent who says the job only pays $500, talks you into taking the job even though it is below your price ("this one is a favor, there will be plenty of others that pay your full price...") and he is taking a 100% comission. SCUM!

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Robert Strong
www.StrongEntertainment.com

**Brian Wilson** · Jan-23-2001, 11:45 PM

I'm in the midst of setting up my own agency and I find this discussion absolutely riveting. As many of you know i'm both a performer (cowguy) and a booker. I believe in acts getting paid what they're worth (or more) and making a profit. Comments?

**Chance** · Jan-25-2001, 05:09 AM

Please go back a read my last message again. I absolutely did not say that I will not work with an agent just because they take a larger cut than 15%. All of my comments on this thread have been directed to the ethics and behavior of an agent, and how they choose to respond to my questions early in our relationship. I have never focused on the dollar amounts involved, but have been trying to make a point for integrity and openness (transparency) of dialog.

**Pokie-Poke** · Jan-25-2001, 09:51 AM

I know of a guy, good with kids, just starting out, who was doing partys for an agent. He would get $50. the agent charged $150. (it gets better)
well he handed out cards for the agent after the partys to the parents, one called the agent and said how wonderful he was and thay had to have him for there kids party. "well he is in high demand and will cost a bit more..."
thay paid...

the day of the party the parents still happy that thay got him came up to him and thanked him and that he was worth the extra monny...."what extra monny??"
"why the $500. the agent told us was the least thay could charg for you."

he still got $50.

now I dont mind paying for the agent to hussel abit for more $$$ say 20% but that is there job.

this story was told to me by paul Garbonzo about a frend of his when this topic came up.

"good judgment comes from experance, Experance comes from bad judgment."

Mark Twane

P.S. I hate this damd spell check!

**Jim** · Jan-25-2001, 11:01 AM

Hey Pokie, Good story. I believe it.

I agree that it was totally slimy, but it goes back to my original point... if that guy had never heard how much the client was being charged, he would have gone on and kept happily working for $50.00.

I know agents have made profits greater than 20% off of me before, but I've never been dis-satisfied with the amount I took home. That's the important part... I give my quote and I'm happy when I'm paid. When I start to get wind that the agent is charging WAY more, it's a learning experience... And I realize it's time to up my price!

P.S. Has the birthday party market really gotten that expensive??? $500.00? Damn.

**worldwidese** · Jan-25-2001, 07:34 PM

My problem with the big agent markup, is that often the client feels that it is the ACTS that are asking the big bucks, and so they tend to go to another agency next time, having decided that they didn't get much bang for their buck. This means that the acts get less work. (Unless they change for a more honest agency) On the other hand, I agree that sometimes a client looks down his nose at a cheap act, even though it may be great. But if there HAS to be a big markup in this case, then perhaps it should be split between act and agent.