Negotiation

[Rachel Peters]

This being my first year of festivals (chalk for now -- it's easiest for me this year), I'm a little bit shy to ask about pay. If someone asks me what I charge, I know what my rates are and I'm comfortable with my rates.

If they don't, a large part of me feels like I should be happy they want me at all, being a newby in the industry, but I also know that I do not want to encourage that attitude in the industry. All the other industries I do work in have the attitude too, and I know it too well and it makes me quite miffed.
I also feel like I'm too old now to go back to doing things for free like an intern, no matter how much I want to be a part of the world.

Some fests are small and can't afford a fee or the fee is far below my regular standard. This I take into consideration and am easy to work with and around.

Others make me feel like they're only not offering because they're waiting to see if I'm shrewd enough know to negotiate. If I don't then it's my loss. Like a car dealership.

I'm finding it hard to tell when to ask or say what I expect as a fee, in fear that they'll change their minds about wanting me. This year I need the experience, but I'm also in a position where I need my time and travel to pay for itself or else I can't maintain it.

How do the experienced of you peoples approach a festivals who don't mention a fee?

(When a contract specifies that they'll actually LET me keep 100% of my hat, it makes me raise an eyebrow.)

I'm waiting to respond to some, not knowing exactly how to approach it. I really want the work... but not if it means encouraging the "work for free" attitude.
I also hesitate to just announce my standard fee, for fear they'll say, "Oh never mind then." with no back-and-forth.

With this I'm finding myself to be too timid, with no poker face at all. I feel like I need instruction on exactly what to say.
I JUST got to a point in animation where I know what to accept and what's bull and shouldn't be tolerated. I want the same knowledge for busker fests.

Isabella, HELP!!

[Daniel Mooncalf]

Yes, this is hard...

I'd be surprised if someone responds with a number. This is an issue I have problems with, too. So far, I've gotten $250 for a local festival, plus hats...

My plan, so far, is to charge double the total travel, and up the price $50 or so every gig from then on, until it feels comfy.

[Rachel Peters]

Well, I have had good experiences of festivals asking me to come and telling me up front what they offer, as well as festivals showing interest and asking what my rates are, then negotiating from there.

My discomfort comes with the ones who seem to say "we want you, therefore we assume you'll do anything for the honor of being here".

It's only happened a few times so far.
With a little asking around, I've learned that the lastest fest with this attitude does not pay, never has, and that's why they don't bring it up in the contract. ...I accepted anyway, prepared for the attitude, purely because I want to meet people and because I have nothing else planned for that slot. I'll see how it goes.

I have had someone ask before what my rates are and then say, "Sorry we can't afford you, good bye." with no back-and-forth at all and no more discussion. ...This is what triggered my nervousness over laying out my rates as if it's the last word.

It's a bit of a gamble.

[Frisbee]

I think the best way to figure out a proper pricing for what you do is exactly what you have said.
<<I know what my rates are and I'm comfortable with my rates>>

you can look at what others in your field are pricing services at and find the range and then base your pricing on what you feel comfortable with. It can be higher, lower in the middle...it is up to you.
The only thing required is be comfortable with what you are charging.

You do not want to do a gig and think, "wow, i way over charged for this " or the opposite, "wow, I should have charged more for what I did."

Find what that price is that you do not think about the money anymore and only think about the job/performance at hand and that will be the right price for you and incidentally will likely make a better performance as you are not thinking about the money aspect.

In your negotiations on pricing structure I usually start out by conversing with the prospective client, find out what there needs are and try to assure them that I am sure we can find a pricing structure that can work with them and within their budget

(sometimes this is not possible as they have NO budget and are looking for a freebie)

I have multiple pricing structure guidlines on a printed paper at my workstation that I can easily reference when talking with people so that it comes qucikly and cleanly and not sounding like I am making a number off the top of my head.

One for corporate
One for festivals
One for walkarounds
one for single shows and multiple shows on the same day
One for day rates for gigs over 2 days
One for pass the hat plus fee
and stipulations for just pass the hat gigs.

If you can not find a solution with the prospective client, know that you did your best to provide your services at the best possible rates and guides you could. Thank them for their time in talking with you and hope that you may be able to work with them in the future.

A turned down or lost gig this year, may lead to one or more later.
just be sure not to burn bridges. We are in a relatively small industry here and good personal relationships go a long way and will help to solidify a successful future.

[Rachel Peters]

Good advice, Frisb. Thanks.

...and can you really see ME buring bridges??

[Frisbee]

it all starts with frying pans.

[scot]

are you trying to burn my bridge?

[Rachel Peters]

No...
I always thought you were.