permits

[circusboy90210]

I would love to talk to your criminal law professors, Circusboy. I am not a lawyer but I do have one that answers my questions. You're caught up in the "constitutional bullshit." We have freedom of speech, UNTIL our freedoms interfere with another party's freedom to make a living. What you say sounds good, but the reality is that you can (and will if you piss off the wrong person) go to jail for trespassing by doing unauthorized soliciting at a festival. I have seen it happen. We were at the Brown County Ohio fair and had a face painting booth. Some guy set up in an unused spot next to us selling pins, for $2 to $5 each. 3 sheriff deputies calmly walked up to him, asked for his receipt for the spot rental. He said he "forgot it." They handcuffed him, confiscated everything he had and took him to jail on the spot. This can and will happen to you if you keep pushing your luck.

look up majic mike in seattle. you will see it's not bullshit. however my street performing does not prevent a vendor from making a living as long as I don't crowd him/her out. community events are for everybody therefore my freedom of speech is just as legit as the preachers lots of fest's never kick out. however I'm not selling anything. I have had run in's with the law for not having a permit which I chose not to fight the constitutionality of that at the time to the ignorant flat foot, I just got a permit. selling stuff 7 street performing are two different things protected by two different sets of laws.

I've done enough research to know that excluding street performers from community events in a community they are part of is unconstitutional. some people celebrate an event by drinking 7 eating , some celebrate by juggling or playing a guitar, etc. now if the people chose to reward them with money so those people can afford food and drink, that is between those persons & god.

oh forgot to mention an event in miami I used to pay to get into and busk all over the place. I had a right to be there as I payed to get in. the police had to wait untill I refused to sit down in the back of a theatre while trying to see a majick show, they kept telling me to sit down as if standing up were illegal. this is how they eventually got me out of there but as I was not actually breaking any laws they could not arrest me. I've street performed in every mid sized to major city in canada & usa, many times.

[Peter]

OK, whatever.

[circusboy90210]

whatever???

alway's welcoma devil's advocate. however it is not constitutional to exclude a performer from a public event. do some more research on magic mike seattle he proves the case for us.

[davidkaye]

alway's welcoma devil's advocate. however it is not constitutional to exclude a performer from a public event. do some more research on magic mike seattle he proves the case for us.

Believe whatever you want to believe, but an event if public only if there are no restrictions to entry. If they charge admission or require that the attendees belong to some group (such as Oracle database or Apple users), then the event is private, not public.

In San Francisco we have lots of trade events such as Oracle and Apple. Oracle has an annual concert on Treasure Island where an area is blocked off and only people who have bought tickets for the Oracle trade show are able to attend the concert. This is a private event, not a public one, even though the concert happens on Treasure Island, a public space.

[circusboy90210]

Believe whatever you want to believe, but an event if public only if there are no restrictions to entry. If they charge admission or require that the attendees belong to some group (such as Oracle database or Apple users), then the event is private, not public.

In San Francisco we have lots of trade events such as Oracle and Apple. Oracle has an annual concert on Treasure Island where an area is blocked off and only people who have bought tickets for the Oracle trade show are able to attend the concert. This is a private event, not a public one, even though the concert happens on Treasure Island, a public space.

agreed, the events i'm talking about have no barrrier to entry all are considered welcome except pets at some. hence a public event.

[Chance]

Actually that's not the case at all. State and County fairs are 100% public property and are therefore public Free Speech forums. So are college campuses. So-called private property pitches such as Fanueil Hall, Fremont Street, San Diego Zoo, Baltimore Inner Harbor, Yankee Stadium, etc., also qualify. I realize that private security will try to run you off these pitches, but that doesn't make it legal for them to do so. It's just a test to see whether you know your rights and have the stones to stand up for them under direct pressure.

In the case of fair grounds (or other taxpayer funded venues), they must always allow you to fly pitch as a walk-in. It may be a pit, but they at least have to give you something, even if it's without proper notice. And if you give them fair notice (eg, 90 days advance notice) they must actually provide you with a suitable venue (rent free) as described by you in your synopsis. So if you tell them that you require a space 80'x120' with a solid dry floor, they must make it available.

Everything I have just said is 100% accurate. But don't ask me for citations. Most of you guys don't believe me anyway. It sounds too good to be true. So look them up for yourself just like I had to. It's the only way you will know for sure. The sense of power it will give you during your next encounter is beyond words.

[circusboy90210]

believe???

I believe you because I have bothered to do the research which cooperates your info. I can't believe there are peformers who are willing to swallow the lies festival orginizers & police tell you about you have no rights in an event.

[Mad_hatter]

In response to the original poster I don't believe there are a lot of places in NC that would have busking permits. However the cops may decided that what you're doing constitutes panhandling so a few performers I know recommend getting a panhandlers licence.

The idea that busking is a form of free speech and one shouldn't have to go through proper channels is silly to me. You're not some guy on a soapbox with something to say. You are a business there to push a product like every other vendor. Your product is your act. All the vendors there are competing to get money from the limited pool brought in by the attendees. They paid for the right to set up shop. And its thanks to the vendors that there is even an event, they're funding it. You have a right to push your product, you don't have a right to skip the rules. Its thinking and acting like that that makes folks think of busker as beggars.

[circusboy90210]

mistaken and hurting your own cause.

In response to the original poster I don't believe there are a lot of places in NC that would have busking permits. However the cops may decided that what you're doing constitutes panhandling so a few performers I know recommend getting a panhandlers licence.

The idea that busking is a form of free speech and one shouldn't have to go through proper channels is silly to me. You're not some guy on a soapbox with something to say. You are a business there to push a product like every other vendor. Your product is your act. All the vendors there are competing to get money from the limited pool brought in by the attendees. They paid for the right to set up shop. And its thanks to the vendors that there is even an event, they're funding it. You have a right to push your product, you don't have a right to skip the rules. Its thinking and acting like that that makes folks think of busker as beggars.

all forms of art are forms of speech. the vendors are not the reason for the event the art & music is the event which bands would do for free if they had too. it's thinking like this that keeps buskers in events and paid for our work even. a community event includes everybody including buskers who are merely expressing themselves and providing phsycic value for the community who in turns gives them brea & water(money). it is a symbiotic relationship and nobody I know relates busking to begging except the vendors who have no real life talent other than hustling people out of money using cheap trinkets.


beggars usually don't get to see all of the usa & canada by begging but busking does so buskers are not beggars ,.

[Peter]

Mad Hatter, never argue with a fool. People may not be able to see the difference. Circusboy thinks he is a constitutional lawyer.

[circusboy90210]

Mad Hatter, never argue with a fool. People may not be able to see the difference. Circusboy thinks he is a constitutional lawyer.

I know enough to keep me out of jail, so perception is reality. the only fool I see here is one who is calling a person they don't know a fool. i can bet I've hit more pitches in a year than you've hit in a lifetime.

[Peter]

I know enough to keep me out of jail, so perception is reality. the only fool I see here is one who is calling a person they don't know a fool. i can bet I've hit more pitches in a year than you've hit in a lifetime.

Wrong Igor. You're shooting off an orifice telling people to do what pisses off people about buskers. Some idiots crash festivals like you do, and then when we, the real buskers, try to work that festival, we get told "why pay your fee, we have a guy working for free." IF and it is a big IF you had any talent you would be on the circuit charging for your abilities. My fees run from $400 a day up to $2000 for a week long fair. I get these fees because I do EXACTLY what I promise to do. I attract the crowds. They come to see my shows. I put on 2 half hour shows and then I work the crowds passing the hat doing sidewalk shows. That way I get my fee plus I get an additional $100 to $150 per hour for every hour I work the crowds.

Pepole like you pretend to entertain but all you do is screw it up for the real buskers

[circusboy90210]

Wrong Igor. You're shooting off an orifice telling people to do what pisses off people about buskers. Some idiots crash festivals like you do, and then when we, the real buskers, try to work that festival, we get told "why pay your fee, we have a guy working for free." IF and it is a big IF you had any talent you would be on the circuit charging for your abilities. My fees run from $400 a day up to $2000 for a week long fair. I get these fees because I do EXACTLY what I promise to do. I attract the crowds. They come to see my shows. I put on 2 half hour shows and then I work the crowds passing the hat doing sidewalk shows. That way I get my fee plus I get an additional $100 to $150 per hour for every hour I work the crowds.

Pepole like you pretend to entertain but all you do is screw it up for the real buskers

I am the real busker. buskers don't charge fee's read the definition of what a busker is. you are a paid entertainment not a busker if you charge any money for your services. I worked a mall bringing in over $5k in my pocket for 2 years so what I don't care how much you make. lots' of event want us to pay to busk that's why I crash events like every other busker i know who travels for a living. tyvm & gb hope that works for you.

[Chance]

Peter, my daily festival rate is about quadruple what yours is since you brought it up, so I guess that should qualify me in your eyes even if nothing else does. But that isn't what makes me right. Stating the plain facts plainly is what makes me right.

We're on opposite sides of this discussion only because one of us has spent the last 15 years studying the issue and fighting it out in court with various government agencies (and winning) and the other one hasn't.

[Mad_hatter]

all forms of art are forms of speech. the vendors are not the reason for the event the art & music is the event which bands would do for free if they had too. it's thinking like this that keeps buskers in events and paid for our work even. a community event includes everybody including buskers who are merely expressing themselves and providing phsycic value for the community who in turns gives them brea & water(money). it is a symbiotic relationship and nobody I know relates busking to begging except the vendors who have no real life talent other than hustling people out of money using cheap trinkets.


beggars usually don't get to see all of the usa & canada by begging but busking does so buskers are not beggars ,.

I did not say the vendors were the reason, I said they funded the event. People come to see the entertainment, and they spend money on vendors, the vendors in turn pay the organization that's putting on the event for the right to sell things, and the organization pays the entertainment. That cycle is what make the event possible. You take out the vendors and the whole thing shuts down. The organization also pays for the permits to host the event, insurance for the event, and they may even have to pay for use of the land. To reap the benefits of that without putting nothing in yourself is parasitic act.

I've seen very few buskers do anything that could be called art, I'll go so far as to say I've seen more art in those cheap trinkets than I've seen in most buskers. I've not seen your act but I bet any clown could do it. But Peters right arguing with you would be like playing chess against a pigeon.