Busking inside paid venues , strange american accepted behaviour

[martin ewen]

That title was longer and therefor more impressive than
"Well I never."
I'm looking at this strange american culture and doing my bit to integrate, learning to dislike humourously american audiences as well as i so successfully dislike the rest of the world.
Done 3 seasons at Maryland, the premier renassaince fest, pays well, great crew. (and hilby)
Looking to branch out, exploring this strange, medieval commercial fixation.
My promo goes down well, people call other people into the room, "check this out."
I just have to try and digest this bizarre twist that seemingly a majority of these fests (not maryland) incorporate.
They offer you the honour of attending their events, the privilege of free entry and perhaps even the right to camp there, with the expectation (I presume contracted) that you perform and busk for your wages.
It seems to be a commonly accepted transaction between admin and performers.
I find it very strange and hard to come to terms with.
I'm a performer.
I have the ability to busk.
You (event producer) want to charge people entry into a venue to watch performers perform in captivity for tips to people who have already paid.
I wonder if this is simply a bi-product of America being one of the saddest actual venues for street performance in the developed world such that its a buyers market for anyone needing streetperformers.
Has anyone here worked under these sort of constraints and A; enjoyed themselves, B; Made decent money, C; Been able to overcome the sneaking suspicion that they're being conceptually raped.

Just wondering....

[martin ewen]

to continue

Having chatted for a short time amicably with the director concerned.
There seems to be (others have mentioned this as well) an ongoing campaign, over many years in some cases, to train the audiences to accept and contribute in the passing of the hat after shows. This results in quite reasonable income in itself.
Lets call that the carrot, or the good cop.
What is not mentioned but sits out there like a used condom hanging off the brides figurine on the top of the cake at the reception (could be over-reaching in the metaphor dept there, oh well)
Is that transporting yourself to the gig and accommodating yourself and making yourself available to the event at the exclusion of other, possibly paying gigs. Is a risk that is entirely yours and not your employers (I use the word loosely) and if it rains or for any reason the crowds are down, that is your problem.
Thats the stick or bad cop.
So in practical terms, leaving aside principled arguments, I suppose it comes down to how much risk you are willing to work with and by association, how desperate you are.
I'm going to do one experimental weekend because I have a reputation as a career masochist and because I like meeting new people and disliking them.

[scot]

I did a renfaire and I got paid like $400 for the weekend + tips. People tipped, and I didn't have a very old looking act. I think if I would have been more old fashion, and fit in more with their fantasies, I would have made more.

[martin ewen]

It just seems a little emperors clothesish

See they expect me to fly there, live in a tent. Have them dictate when and where I perform and for how long and then presume I'm OK to trust them that someone else (who's already paid them for a day of fun filled timetravel) will see fit to reward me for the entertainment I provide.
Is it just me or is there some sort of economic mass hypnotism going on here?
This is presented to me and confirmed by other performers as an actual ongoing status quo business arrangement of long standing at quite a few of these olde fests.
I told the guy. "I'll let you exploit me for a weekend, see how it goes."
He had the grace to give a prolonged chuckle.

[gav]

Personally the minimum arrangment I will accept is full travel money, decent accomadation, food, and some kind of daily retainer. To accept that minimum, I need to here from a reliable source that good hats can be had.
I don't work the US though, I'm talking about europe generaly.
I've only busked in one festival that has charged entrance fee. It was in Italy, and the hats were better than other festivals I had been to in Italy, but less than most in europe. However, the money made on entrance went to paying a decent retainer, travel, food, and accom.
Having said that,I recently heard of a gig in europe that won't pay me anything apart from a short ferry trip, I stay in a tent, and the rest is up to me. I'm thinking of going, because many performers have told me they had a good time, and great hats. I don't think there is an entrance fee though.

On the whole I personaly think that this kind of arrangment is a total rip off, and someone is making a major profit from the fact that they're not paying you jack.

If a festival in Croatia can pay you 100 euro a day retainer and accom, travel, food. I really can't see why one in the US can't do it.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

I worked NY for ten years, about a decade ago, now, and they paid 150 per day plus hats. I brought the green stuff home in bucketloads, and never had a bad day, including rainy ones, but here's the thing: we could busk when and where we wanted, and I was in love with performing. One issue you're wondering about, I can disabuse you of. For whatever reason, the US punters will cough it up gladly, even 33 minutes after handing over a 20 spot to get in.

Having said that: pick your batttlegrounds. I advise you to play up the covert nature of your work, and thereby seperate yourself from what they know as performers. Work strictly fee based, is my two cents. The other path is rugged, and steep as a dippety-doo-greased curve on Ye Olde Pseudo Captain Morgan Moustache. Approach it at your own peril.

[Chris Griffith]

ren fests

I've only ever experienced the MN ren fest, but you've pretty much summed it up.

The only thing I'd add is that the festival also recruits hundreds of volunteer "performers" who LIVE the fantasy 24/7 and with whom you'll be competing for the patron's attention.

That said, there are a few performers who are rumored to make a ton at these festivals & who have gone on to become big names (think Penn & Teller, Puke & Snot, etc). They tend to have the bargaining power to get whatever they want from admin. Everyone else is the condom on the cake.

good luck!

[Stretch]

Ditto for Parades

Parades. Most want you to pay them for the joy of being in their parade. However, they will pay for an out of state float to participate. And occsionaly an individual, such as a stilt performer or Giant Parade Puppet will get paid to entertain in a parade. Occasionaly. Helps to be from out of town.

And you wouldn't believe the line of crap I got from the Grand Prix folks. For the "privilage" of breathing their lead laced fumes. (Racing fuel is NOT lead free)

Non profits: There are 17,000 of them in Colorado - really. Can't tell you how many
of them will piously recite "non profit" as some sort of magic spell, hoping for free entertainment.

There are a couple of festivals around here that don't hire, but rather charge you rent for your 10 x 10 tent space. Mostly taken by facepainters and balloon twisters. So it could be worse.

For what it is worth, I have it on very good authority, that the begger at the renfest, you know, the guy covered in mud, banging his head with a frying pan, begging, makes out VERY well. And he doesn't even need to stand up to make it!

[Isabella]

Renfaires

Martin, I'm not sure which renfest wanted you to work for tips only, but that's not the general deal. I've done renfests for 17 years, first as a local volunteer street cast member, then as a pro for 11 years. And you are right that MDRF is the very best

Generally, here's how it works - the festival pays you a good sum. Enough money so that even if it rains like fury, you can still afford to be there and make money (because you've crossed out the 'if we close in the middle of the day you don't get paid' clause in the contract, of course you have) As a guideline, my two-person group made $125/day our very first year when our act sucked and was going up for the frst time. I wouldn't work today for less than 4 times that.

If the festival is a no-hat show, they pay you more. Not as much as you might have made in tips, but nearly that much, and of course you don't take a hit on tips if it rains. So you want to charge a no-hat show somewhere between half again as much and double your daily rate.

At festivals where you pass the hat, you can usually meet or beat your daily rate in tips. Standard is four shows per day, plus some acts like to do extra work in the lanes for more tips. Your shows are usually 30-45 minutes, scheduled so that you have two good times, one OK time, and one lousy time (against the joust, for example). Yes, they tell you when and where to perform, but they also give you a stage with a backstage, lots of seating, listing and description in the program, sometimes a sound system, sometimes a hawker to help you hawk the show, etc.

I found that Busker Festivals and Renaissance Festivals made me about the same amount of money - at the Renfest, tips were lower but I was also getting paid. The main difference was that the Busker Festival was five days in a row, instead of 2 days a week for 8 weeks. But I come from the renfest community, so I do value being there.

The fall shows are most lucrative. Michigan, Kansas City, Minnesota, Maryland.
The California shows are most unused to actually paying people, because they didn't start paying people until about 7 years ago.
The no-hat shows are Sterling (Upstate NY - not Sterling Forest), Maryland, Pennsylvania, and
The Florida shows are the drunkest, but you get to be warm in February and you can go down to Key West during the week if you're feeling ambitious.

Some shows provide lodging, some provide a campground, some provide nothing. As you probably saw at MDRF, there is a community that springs up that's pretty neat to be a part of. It's always negotiable. If they really want you, they'll often work a deal with a sponsor to house you, or even lodge you in a staff member or volunteer actor's home.

I think the biggest difference between this and other venues is that you get actual fans - people who come to your show every weekend, sometimes more than once a day, tell their families about you, write you up in their blog, buy your t-shirts. I visited the Ohio show for one weekend to check on my second team, and I had people who hadn't seen me there in five years recognize me (in a different costume) and tell me how much they missed my act. It was humbling and delightful.


Allison

[Isabella]

PS

The mudbeggar hitting his head with the pan is Gordie Boudreau, a longtime and very successful performer. He's one of the funniest people I've ever met, and the mudshow he is part of (yes, there's more than one) is the best on circuit. The money pours forth like a green Niagara...

[caricatureguy]

Hi Martin. I've had an experience with these kinds of shows working only for tips. I don't do them anymore. I think a lot of the draw for these specialty fests is that straight people can go for free as a vacation of sorts and make money while they pretend to be a street performer or a pirate or a wench, etc... I don't believe that many pros do them unpaid. If I truly had nothing better to do I might do one just for shits and giggles. I've heard stories about ren faires after dark... I would never travel far to do them and if they were taking money at the door, then they should pay you to be there.

Sounds kinda like a church craft show. I make art and my wife makes jewelry. Constantly, people tell us "oh, you should sell your work at this or that craft show or art fair". Thing is, it's a gamble and a waste of time. They charge way too much for a booth and you are surrounded by crappy stuff that goes for way less than the finely crafted stuff you make. Nobody but the other vendors and you know the difference though, so if you make your money back you're lucky. Nobody there is going to spend money on something good when they can get lots of stupid plastic trinkets for almost nothing. If you invested your time (plus expenses) in this sort of festival you would feel the same way.

I will sometimes do LOCAL things pro-bono/for tips for non profits or for things that are really well publicized in order to gain exposure for my business. For some charities, I will even pitch in for at the end of the event if I want to give something to the cause. I usually even make up a one hours worth of free caricatures certificate to auction off for charity too. This is a tax break see, and not only that, my reason for doing these is to gain exposure for my caricature business and I advertise on the back of my paper while drawing, all the while, working for tips. Often, really good tips. Obviously you don't have the advertising options that I do (that I can think of, I might be wrong) so it might not be worth your while...

I also work for tips in bars. If I can find a street with a bunch of bars on it that are really busy, I can make a couple hundred a night. I approach the bar owners and make sure it's alright first, but they don't pay me, I don't pay them. If I don't have any other jobs going on, this is a really good business and the whole time, I'm advertising my business and actually helping people to appreciate the art of caricature. In Cleveland, that's quite a fete, believe it or not. I have actually had dumb ass bar owners (of humongous bars with 1500+ capacity) ask me to pay them, because they think I'm going to take money from them. Of course, I refused and pointed to the ATM... Occasionally a bar will contact me and ask me to come and work for tips. When this happens, I get paid a flat rate and work for tips until I'm not busy anymore. For really small places I guarantee them that I will stay for at least an hour.

Question: In your opinion, does this devalue my work? I have heard that there are some local caricature artists who have a problem with me doing this kind of advertising/busking because they feel that they are not getting calls/paid to do these kinds of events if I am there working for free/tips. They have raised the same questions you have in this thread that people will call them and expect them to work for tips. However, if somebody calls me, I expect them to pay. I only do the tips thing when I contact a charity or bar because I can make a bunch of money or I see an opportunity to advertise.

I have a freind who is a magician who apparently get calls from places to go work for tips once a week. The client pays him to busk on a regular basis. I think that this is great but it's a specialty crowd and it would be difficult to find this kind of work otherwise. I don't know how to go about advertising for this kind of a gig.

I can't see the bars or non profits I do this for being in the market to hire the kind of entertainment I provide, so I think it's kind of like I'm creating my own market. Obviously with the charities, it is different but if I call them they had not thought to hire an artist before I came along, If I call them, I get to advertise, work for tips and write it off, then the next time charities call me they are more than likely going to expect to pay me and that would mean that my advertising paid off. There was a discussion on another forum for caricature artists where this topic came up. Seems to be a good argument for both sides. I'm just curious what non-caricaturists would think about it, seeing how it is a similar profession.